Nature Photographers Network
This is the preserved archive of the original Nature Photographers Network. The community continues at naturephotographers.network.
Hibiscus also
‹ PreviousFlora GalleryNext ›

Hibiscus also

by Gary Yeoh

Gallery: FloraPosted August 7, 2011375 views17 comments
Have been working on this image for many hours to get to this stage. Boy, floral radiography is really time intensive. Hopefully it will get better as I do more of this. The first hurdle is to get a fresh flower... so I went begging. Went to the public garden near work and asked the person in charge if I could have a fresh flower to x-ray. He gave me a funny look but agreed to give me one bloom. Took it to the hospital but the x-ray department was busy so had to wait and in the mean time the flower is wilting. Finally tried to expose this with the regular plain x-ray machine at the lowest setting of 28 kV but the bg was very high. Repeat scan with the GE mammo machine set at 25 kV. The mammo machine was a new machine and the details are very good but still the petal is so thin that it is a challenge to get the selection tools to work - so had to do the hard way and manually clean up the bg.

After working on this for several hours (over many sessions), I am still mesmerised by the details of the buds and the ovules. Please see large version for details.

Dicom image processed in CS5, Silver Pro with high key & selenium toning. Posting the neg image following this and a colorized version in Photoart.

Thanks for looking and C&C on floral radiography appreciated. The 'free trial' is about to expire and if I am thinking of doing more of these I will have to make formal arrangement to pay for the radiography.

Comments

17 comments
Comment posted by Gary Yeoh on August 7, 2011 at 10:02 AM
This is the x-ray image with slight blue tinge to simulate x-ray film view on a light box.
Registered on September 1, 2009, 588 Posts, 8184 Comments
Comment posted by Pat Sampson on August 7, 2011 at 10:45 AM
This is very neat Gary. I do love the detail you've captured. Surprisingly (or maybe not) I prefer the negative. I think it has more impact but Terri prefers the other, so It's probably just my penchant for dark bgs. (smile)

Compositionally, I think this would be stronger if there were no overlap in the image elements, except for the pistil and bloom. I also think more of a macro would make a very interesting image, although I have no idea though what resolution the machines are capable of. I like your processing and conversion very much. The structural detail is absolutely fascinating. I'm looking forward to the next.

pat
Registered on May 19, 2007, 953 Posts, 15989 Comments
Comment posted by scott lanz on August 7, 2011 at 11:44 AM
How cool and artistic. Fabulous, really. Of these two posted here, I prefer the high key version, but both are great. The colorized version posted in PA is also great. So, how much are x-ray machines? :wink:

Hardly worth mentioning, but I'd probably crop a little off the top.
Registered on November 14, 2003, 840 Posts, 12902 Comments
Comment posted by Daniel & Loana on August 7, 2011 at 2:24 PM
Wonderful results here. I prefer the first version.
Thanks for the explanation.

D&L
Registered on October 7, 2008, 166 Posts, 3044 Comments
Comment posted by Ramamohan Pai on August 7, 2011 at 2:37 PM
My goodness :eek: :eek: - Gary this is superb. Simply love the finest of fine details the XRays have brought out. Overlapping portions is a very minor thing - I did not even think of those when I first opened the post. Even the innards of the buds have come out in so much detail :toast: :toast:
Registered on November 1, 2003, 550 Posts, 9037 Comments
Comment posted by Craig Strand on August 7, 2011 at 4:55 PM
WoW! How beautiful and unique is that? What a wonderful technique even with all the manual work you put into it. I really love the soft delicate look and with all the detail, us detail fanatics could want.
This inspired me sooooo much that I grabbed an armful of flowers from the garden and drove to the local General Hospital. I showed a copy of your image to the head X-ray technician but he still called security and had me removed, now what? :biggrin:
Registered on March 30, 2008, 416 Posts, 2885 Comments
Comment posted by Bob Duff on August 7, 2011 at 4:57 PM
Another wonderful image Gary. I echo Pat's comment about not having overlapping elements. Don't know if you have seen the magazine or if your library carries it: Garden Design. They had an issue late last year I believe of ferns with all the photos being radiographic. You can find them on their web site www.gardendesign.com. Just search their site for Gallery of Ferns. Might give you some ideas. From the brief amount I've read on the subject it seems the newer m/cs are really too powerful for floral work. The older "retired" ones are better. Don't know if that's the case really or if your hosital/clinic would have such m/cs to try?? Looking forward to the next in th eseries if you decide to carry on.
Registered on April 21, 2010, 160 Posts, 1675 Comments
Comment posted by Bill Fach on August 7, 2011 at 6:55 PM
Gary: I wonder what would happen if I ordered a CT scan of one of my flowers? The radiologists at our hospital would then be certain that I had lost my marbles. Both images are very cool but I much prefer the original high key version. Superb creativity.>=))>
Registered on November 1, 2003, 1805 Posts, 26981 Comments
Comment posted by Albert Darmo on August 7, 2011 at 6:58 PM
Hi Gary :wavey: Flowers are not covered be medicare in Canada :biggrin: So i'm stuck with my puny camera :wink: I'm amazed by you fine imaginative floral radiography work, but still prefer the last post :smile:
Albert Darmo
Registered on November 25, 2008, 1386 Posts, 11978 Comments
Comment posted by Gary Yeoh on August 8, 2011 at 6:18 AM
Thanks everyone for your comments. It is encouraging me to do more.

Pat:
I also like the negative more but most people are more used to looking at positives and can relate to them more and that is why I have put the positive one first. The resolution of this is 1:1 - like a scan or contact print. I suppose one can do macro on this and the mammo machine can have up to 2x magnification (I think digital enlargement but in the film days the film cassette was placed further back). I am still finding my ways with this technique and I take your point about overlapping. However, unlike scan, you cannot weigh down the specimen as the washers would show up in the image - if you look very carefully at the edge of the lower petal, you can see a denser area when I have use adhesive tape to hold the stem. The strong point of radiography is the fine details that are not visible to the naked eye; and since color is not part of the equation, the shape and arrangement are the only two variables one can play with.

Scott & Bob:
I have no idea how much a x-ray machine is but it would be easily more than 100x a DSLR! However, I did a quick e-bay search for used faxitron machine which are available for US$1000-4000. This is in fact the best machine for floral photography and does not require radiation shielding of the room as it is an enclosed cabinet. I have used a faxitron machine in the 80's during my residency training at the hospital for x-raying surgical specimens (not flowers). The unit is easy to operate and does not require any specialized training - as easy as operating a microware oven! This unit can be adjusted for low kV (10-50 kV) and longer exposure of several minutes; ideal exposure level for floral radiography. I have not access to a faxitron now. The new medical machine can only go down to 25kV which is what I have to work with. The drawback of the high radiation is higher bg which is why I had to spent a lot of time manually cleaning up the bg.

Bob:
Thanks for the pointer to garden design and the fern images are certainly very beautiful. It gives me more subjects and ideas to play with.

Bill:
The x-ray department in our hospital already know I have lost my marbles.. that is why they are so accommodating :wink:
Registered on September 1, 2009, 588 Posts, 8184 Comments
Comment posted by Mark Seaver on August 8, 2011 at 11:43 AM
The emphasis on the flower's structure is very striking and your arrangement works very well. Both images are striking. I find it interesting that the dark version emphasizes the interior structures of the buds and flower more than the light version.
Registered on January 23, 2011, 1103 Posts, 17270 Comments
Comment posted by Morris McClung on August 9, 2011 at 10:47 PM
Cool and very graphic. I like both versions, but for some reason like Pat, I prefer the negative one a little more.
Registered on May 7, 2007, 670 Posts, 19650 Comments
Comment posted by Rob Graham on August 11, 2011 at 2:17 PM
Gary, I may have to start following Flora just to watch for these images :). I actually tried this on a dried up rose a couple weekends ago after seeing one of your images, but couldn't drop the KV low enough, and I don't know how to use the mammo machine. I then practiced on some rocks, and got decent images but nothing artistic at all. Keep up the good work, I am enjoying your adventure very much. Naturally, I prefer the negative version, and the blue tint is just right.
Registered on August 22, 2006, 842 Posts, 2824 Comments
Comment posted by Gary Yeoh on August 11, 2011 at 8:53 PM
Rob:
It is good to hear that you are also experimenting with floral radiography. This paper in Radiographics is quite helpful background reading. Most newer medical machines are too powerful for floral work but would work if you set the kV down as low as possible. With my calla shot, we use the setting for 'finger' which is around 40kV; the bg was a little high but the image is workable. We find the mammo a little better and the bg is cleaner. The mammo machine can go down to 22 kV. This hibiscus is shot at 25kV 40mAmps. I look forward to seeing some of your floral radiographs posts in this gallery in the near future.
Registered on September 1, 2009, 588 Posts, 8184 Comments
Comment posted by Mohammad Hosseini on September 3, 2011 at 12:11 PM
Gary, Great work and very innovative and creative. Is this still a photograph or just a radiograph?
I like both of them and the color version in PA gallery as well. But, I wonder how the light one would look with a dark BG?
And do you get free trial for radiography???
Great job, now we can see the normally hidden details. :wavey:
Registered on May 16, 2011, 15 Posts, 301 Comments
Comment posted by Basil Greber on September 4, 2011 at 4:15 PM
Talk about going the extra mile. You went several. Great result.
Registered on November 8, 2005, 219 Posts, 1340 Comments
Comment posted by Chris Grabski on September 5, 2011 at 7:38 AM
Gary thanks for your email. Cheers. Chris
Registered on April 29, 2011, 122 Posts, 431 Comments