As many on this site have an interest in visiting the infamous "Wave" in the Coyote Buttes North area of the Arizona-Utah border, just wanted you to know the BLM is proposing some rule changes. In summary some of the changes include elimination of the daily lottery, moving the reservation system to Recreation.gov, raising the day use to $12, etc. Fortunately, the plan does not decrease the number of permits. The BLM is seeking comments by August 17.
Posted by Monika Chace on August 4, 2015 at 9:26 AM
Thanks, Ken. I'd always found the walk-in next day permits to be pretty reliable midweek in winter. Guess that'll be coming to an end.
Posted by Doug Koepsel on August 4, 2015 at 11:01 AM
It will save a drive to Kanab for a winter drawing on Friday. This last winter there were still 70+ people on a Friday hoping for the Wave on the 2 times I drove from Flagstaff to Kanab. If the new system is implemented, I suspect one will still need to go to Kanab to pick up the permit. It will cut down on congestion in the visitor center. I suspect the new system will be implemented.
Posted by Richard Olsen on August 4, 2015 at 11:41 PM
Either have to pick up the permits in Kanab or the visitors center between Kanab and Page. That might make getting a permit and planning a trip in the area a little bit easier. Hopefully it won't doom last minute trip opportunities to the area and ability to get a permit.
Posted by Jeff Hackett on August 7, 2015 at 1:46 PM
How much is the fine is someone gets caught "poaching"?
Posted by Monika Chace on August 7, 2015 at 10:58 PM
Jeff, in 2013 it was $1200. A number of people were caught during the government "shutdown" as they assumed, wrongly, that the rangers wouldn't be patrolling. I don't know if that's per person or per group.
"Apparently the Coyote Buttes law enforcement ranger has been very active in giving out fines. Here's some information posted on backcountrypost.com:
“I talked to someone at Paria Outfitters about how heavily patrolled House Rock Valley Road is. They said that the ranger who checks permits was not furloughed and that he is catching people poaching the Wave. One of them received a $1200 fine.”
Apparently $1,200 is the standard fine. Forewarned is forearmed." from http://thewave.info
I've also seen a ranger in at White Pocket checking permits for a Japanese film crew.
Posted by Jeff Hackett on August 9, 2015 at 12:03 PM
I have no plans on poaching, but me and my wife saw a couple we knew was poaching because they did not get the permit for saturday (we did have a permit) during friday's weekend draw. This was a few years ago on Super Bowl weekend. The fines I have seen range from just a "shaming" to $1200 as the link you provided states though most I have read were from $125-$300. I for one am not a fan of the all online proposal.
Posted by Karl Buiter on August 10, 2015 at 6:07 AM
I just wonder how many tour groups and guides willl hire professional hackers to game the system.
Discussion
7 repliesAs many on this site have an interest in visiting the infamous "Wave" in the Coyote Buttes North area of the Arizona-Utah border, just wanted you to know the BLM is proposing some rule changes. In summary some of the changes include elimination of the daily lottery, moving the reservation system to Recreation.gov, raising the day use to $12, etc. Fortunately, the plan does not decrease the number of permits. The BLM is seeking comments by August 17.
http://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/info/newsroom/2015/july/drft-pariabusplan.html
Thanks, Ken. I'd always found the walk-in next day permits to be pretty reliable midweek in winter. Guess that'll be coming to an end.
It will save a drive to Kanab for a winter drawing on Friday. This last winter there were still 70+ people on a Friday hoping for the Wave on the 2 times I drove from Flagstaff to Kanab. If the new system is implemented, I suspect one will still need to go to Kanab to pick up the permit. It will cut down on congestion in the visitor center. I suspect the new system will be implemented.
Either have to pick up the permits in Kanab or the visitors center between Kanab and Page. That might make getting a permit and planning a trip in the area a little bit easier. Hopefully it won't doom last minute trip opportunities to the area and ability to get a permit.
How much is the fine is someone gets caught "poaching"?
Jeff, in 2013 it was $1200. A number of people were caught during the government "shutdown" as they assumed, wrongly, that the rangers wouldn't be patrolling. I don't know if that's per person or per group.
"Apparently the Coyote Buttes law enforcement ranger has been very active in giving out fines. Here's some information posted on backcountrypost.com:
“I talked to someone at Paria Outfitters about how heavily patrolled House Rock Valley Road is. They said that the ranger who checks permits was not furloughed and that he is catching people poaching the Wave. One of them received a $1200 fine.”
Apparently $1,200 is the standard fine. Forewarned is forearmed." from http://thewave.info
I've also seen a ranger in at White Pocket checking permits for a Japanese film crew.
I have no plans on poaching, but me and my wife saw a couple we knew was poaching because they did not get the permit for saturday (we did have a permit) during friday's weekend draw. This was a few years ago on Super Bowl weekend. The fines I have seen range from just a "shaming" to $1200 as the link you provided states though most I have read were from $125-$300. I for one am not a fan of the all online proposal.
I just wonder how many tour groups and guides willl hire professional hackers to game the system.