Once again, computer question

It's been a while since I've noticed any entries on this subject and since computers change so quickly, and, since I am now considering an upgrade, how about you techies offering some advice on configuring a windows pc for photo editing. Not interested in Mac. Mac folks please refrain from telling me how misguided I am. I have my reasons.

It's very hard for the layman to decode the arcane details of motherboards, cpus (what the heck is a core and what's good about more than 1!), video cards (lots of internet info on gaming but not much for photo editing). I think I understand needing beaucoup RAM but that's about it. Without understanding much of this I went to the Puget site and "built" a PC which came to over $3000!!! Surely I don't need to spend this much for photo editing with Lightroom and Photoshop CC2014 do I? It had to be because I really didn't understand the options.

I'm not interested at all in video. just LR and CC2014 as noted. BUT! I do get into some really large files at times since most of my sales are in the 20x30, 24x36 and larger sizes.

I would like the capability to hold 3 hard drives, as many USB 3.0 ports as reasonable and also be upgradeable if I ever learn how!

Thanks in advance for any and all input.
John Reed

John,

It's really easy to go crazy when spec'ing a computer, especially a custom box. Many folks think they need all kinds of high-powered hardware to do what they need the machine to do. Part of the problem, perhaps a big part, is the hype one reads on the Web.

So, hopefully my remarks below will be of help.

"What the heck is a core?"

Basically, the CPU contains a 'core' processor. If the CPU is a 'quad core' it has 4 cores, so in essence you're getting four 'cpu's' on a single chip. The advantage is that some applications can use up to all four cores for their needs, which increases performance.

Don't worry about the 'arcane' details on motherboards. A good custom builder will choose a board that will support the hardware and CPU of your choice.

Here's some ideas that might save you some money...

1. You only need a single quad core Intel Xeon CPU of about 3.4 or 3.5 GHz.
2. Get 2 each 8GB sticks of RAM to start (16 GB total). You could then upgrade to a total of 32 GB at a later time.
3. You don't need a high powered video card. A 2 GB nVidia or AMD Radeon card will work just fine. (I like NVidia)
4. Use an SSD for your primary drive--256GB is plenty large enough for your OS, programs, and working files.
5. Your second and third internal drives should be regular HD's. I suggest the 2 TB Western Digital Red HD's for this purpose.
6. The on-board sound will be fine.
7. Standard heatsink and cooling are fine.

I took a quick look at Puget System's Obsidian Workstation:

CPU: Intel Xeon 3.5 GHz
RAM: 2x8 GB Kingston RAM (16 GB total)
Video: GEForce GT-640 2 GB
Primary Drive: Samsung 256 GB SSD
Second HD: Western Digital 2TB Red
Third HD: Western Digital 2 TB Red
Cooling: Standard Cooler Master Hyper TX3
Optical Drive: Asus 24x CD/DVD
Power Supply: Seasonic 650W
OS: Win 7 64 bit.

Cost: $2371.

While this config is not particularly inexpensive, it's certainly much less that $3K

On a personal note: I have an older Puget Obsidian (from 2011) that has performed perfectly. It only has an i5 Quad Core, a 1 GB Video card, and 16 GB of RAM, but it makes short work of Photo Shop files up to 2 GB in size. I did add a SSD as my primary drive later on. The build quality is excellent and Puget's customer service and tech support is the best I've found.

Give Puget Systems a call! They will help you get a machine that will do the job within your budget.

--P

John:

Preston provided excellent advice. If Puget Systems is still outside your price range and you're willing to sacrifice their excellent support, you can create your own performance specifications and look in your area for a reputable small builder. My wife and I have found a couple in our smallish city that will build just what you can afford with the best performance possible.

Hi John,

Bit of a different approach: build it yourself. Way easier than you think. I've built COUNTLESS systems in the past 6 years for people and not only are they wicked fast, but most components come with a 3-5 year warranty. Some of them lifetime. Call Dell and ask them how much a 5 year warranty is, pushes near $500. But when you buy quality components, they rarely, if ever, fail.

I think the biggest fear factor is, there are 40 billion choices, what parts do I buy? How do I know what to get and what's all compatible with each other? Funny thing is, think of camera bodies and lenses you own or want to. All these choices and all these manufactures, yet you know exactly what you want and we all mostly pick the same things because they are tried and true.

So, fear not, here's your list. I would pick these parts for myself if I didn't already have a rig I built a year ago. This PC list will run you about $1,500 but your PC will be screaming fast for years to come and laugh at Photoshop. In fact, Photoshop will load, ready to process, 3-4 seconds after you double click it. Seriously. I just built 4 of these rigs and the folks are overjoyed. So here go. Please note that due to NPN forum restriction I can only put 10 links in at a time, so I'll break this up over two replies:

Intel Core i7-4790
EVGA GTX 750 Ti Video Card This is more than enough horsepower for Photoshop and will handle video easily if you ever end up trying that.
ASUS Z97-A Motherboard I've build a half dozen rigs with this mobo, and while I use a much more expensive one, ASUS has proven they're the best.
CORSAIR CX600M Power supply Not overkill, you want your PSU to run lazily, so 600w will cover you quite nicely and allow for additional drives, etc, later.
Mushkin Enhanced STEALTH 16GB (2 x 8GB) RAM Best in the business and made in the USA. Most of your high end custom workstation that people build run on Mushkin RAM.
ASUS 24X DVD Burner BluRay burners are about $70 if you want that.
SAMSUNG 850 256GB SSD This is to be your main C drive for OS and all apps and plugins, NO user files and pictures. A dedicated SSD for OS and apps is a huge must.
SanDisk Ultra II 120GB SSD This SSD is only for one thing: Adobe Scratch Disk. When you dedicate an SSD to Scratch, there's nothing like it in the world when using Photoshop... super speed on big fle processing.

WD BLACK SERIES WD3003FZEX 3TB Hard Drive Big honkin' reliable drive for photos.
ICY DOCK FLEX-FIT Trio MB343SP 2 x 2.5” HDD/SSD to 5.25” Adapter/Bracket You'll mount your two SSDs in this and put it in a drive bay, right in front of the cooling fan in the case.
WD Elements 4TB USB 3.0 3.5" External Hard Drive Here's your backup, an obviousl must. This thing will handle all of the data on your drives, plus a system image. Heaven forbid you have an emergency like a house fire, you grab this drive and your whole world is in your hand. You'll set up Windows to run scheduled backups so you always have your stuff covered. You could also pay for a Crashplan subscription for an additional online backup and then you are covered in every direction.
Windows 8.1 pro 64-bit OEM Windows is this cheap when you buy the OEM version which means you are building and supporting this PC. No brainer!
Antec Nine Hundred Case
Don't pay $239 for this case, Newegg is out of stock and that's a 3rd party seller price. Amazon should have it for about $99. But it's the best case for the buck, it has so many fans to keep your rig cool it'll blow papers around the room. (just kidding!). Here's a classic example of compatibility by the way... this new "USB 3.0" version case means it has a special cable for the motherboard so you can have USB 3 ports up on top of the case. Wellllll, the motherboard has to have that special connector for the case to plug in to for this to work, and of course the ASUS mobo on the list does.

There you have it. If you decide to go this route, let me know and I'll be on hand to answer questions and give you some tips, like what's the best order to assemble, etc. Seriously, this is just like a LEGO set, you just snap it together. You'll be amazed after it's done how easy it was and wonder why there's this mystery to these expensive custom rigs. Nothing wrong at all with a Puget system, and in fact if someone wanted world class components and a rig that will last and be fast, they are the way to go. But understandably these guys need to pay rent and employees and everything else, so they have to charge what's needed to keep the doors open. But if someone wants it perfectly done and handed to them, definitely go Puget and stay away from mass manufactured PCs that need replacing every 3 years. However, if you're on a budget and you're capable of assembling an Ikea desk, building a PC is a piece of cake. You just need the magic parts list.

Preston, Dennis, and Paul,
Many thanks for taking the time to help. Paul, you are closest to the way I like to work. My current machine was assembled by a friend of mine (while I watched) using components he specified and I purchased. He gave me a list just as you have. I'm thinking maybe now I can solo on assembling because it really was not that complicated, just deliberate, and be sure to be grounded and not to skip a step!!

This was around 5 years ago and the tab was just over $900 from Newegg so it's reasonable to expect the prices to be a bit higher now. Of course, I can get the price down some by reusing some components I have on hand. I actually have 2-3 cases. Not sure the new gear is compatible but we can always find that out. Maybe the RAM should be replaced? Not sure how the RAM ratings go.

Speaking of RAM...One question, both Preston and Paul, you've recommended 16gb of RAM. I have that now and was thinking I might need more since many of my requests these days are for really large prints as I noted earlier. If I work in 16bit, the files get quite large. So...would more RAM help there? I'm thinking yes, but not sure.

Thanks again,
John

Ah, glad you mentioned RAM, I forgot to comment on that: Preston and I picked 2x8GB simply to get you 16GB to get you going, but the ASUS mobo has 4 slots so you can get a second set now or later to make 32GB ram. Yes, I suggest 32GB ram, I use that. I give Photoshop 80% RAM usage which is 29GB, and while working on a huge pano for 40 minutes once, I checked and Photoshop was using all 29GB of RAM. Amazing.

RAM is faster today, you want new ram to match the new motherboard. The motherboard also has faster buss speeds for PCI as well as USB 3.0. Your older cases won;t have USB 3.0 headers, but if you don;t mind reaching around the back for things like the WD external, then you can use your old case,. Make sure it has lots of fans, you can make a desktop last for a decade or longer with adequate cooling.

Oh, last thought on the processor: i5's are technically as fast as i7s in some ways and for the normal user who surfs the web and uses Office, there is zero advantage to an i7 because an i7 has the same 4 cores (quad core) as an i5, but it runs 2 threads per core whereas an i5 only runs 1. Most apps don't leverage multithreaded processors, so things like Excel don't even see the extra threads. But Photoshop surely does so you don't want to skimp on the processor. You didn't say you would, I just wanted to note the importance of that.

Wow, thanks for all the info, Paul!

I thought I'd add a word or three about Photo Shop's Efficiency and how it relates to installed RAM and the PS Scratch Disk on a 64 bit system with 64 bit Photoshop.

You can see Photoshop's "Efficiency" by looking at the status bar at the bottom left of the application window. Click the little right arrow and then select "Efficiency". This number, expressed as a percentage, tells you whether or not PS is writing/reading from your scratch disk. If the number drops below about 95%, PS is 'hitting' your scratch disk.

You can increase efficiency by allocating more RAM to Photoshop by going to Edit>Preferences>Performance. There, you can increase the amount of RAM used by Photo Shop. It is recommended to make changes in 5% increments and then restarting Photo Shop. Keep in mind that if you set this percentage too high, Windows performance will suffer, and any other programs open at the time may also perform badly, or crash.

If your computer has a large amount of RAM, say 8 GB or more, and your RAM allocation is set properly, PS' 'efficiency' should remain high; at or near 100%.

Add more RAM: If the performance of PS is not what you'd like and/or you have other needed programs running at the same time, you should consider adding more RAM if your OS and mother board support it.

Scratch Disks...

Many opinions exist on this subject, and there are various ways to set them up, including RAID volumes. But, let's keep this simple.

If your primary (OS) drive is an SSD, assigning your primary scratch disk to this drive will work nicely with no performance hit, as long as this disk is only about 75% of it's capacity. If you have an SSD for a secondary drive, assign this disk as your second scratch disk. If you have a regular HDD in addition, you can assign it as your third priority scratch disk. If you have only a regular HDD as your secondary drive, assign it as your second scratch disk.

Here is an article from Adobe Help about getting the best performance out of PS...

http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/optimize-performance-photoshop-cs4-cs5.html

OK, that was more than 3 words , but hopefully will help when it comes to making hardware choices for either an upgrade or purchase of a new computer for photo editing.

--P

Once again, my sincere thanks for all the help provided here. You've helped guide me and it's much appreciated. Hopefully this will be of use to others as well.