Posted by John Reed on January 17, 2014 at 12:11 PM
I teach basic digital photography and am a Canon shooter. In class last night while discussing exposure compensation I was totally confounded by several Nikon D5100 users who experienced something I'd not seen before & I can't find the answer in any Nikon manuals.
They were in either aperture or shutter priority. They pushed the exposure compensation button located near the shutter button and then turned their command dial to set the amount. So far all is well. But here's where it went south. The metering scale both on the LCD and in the viewfinder did NOT match the compensation amount shown numerically in the small box. I believe the number in the box to be correct simply based on photos taken but why did the scale bars not line up to match the number readout????
Any help in understanding this will be appreciated.
Thanks,
John
Posted by Luke Ormand on January 17, 2014 at 12:20 PM
I'm assuming it was verified that they were dialing in exposure compensation and not flash compensation?
The only thing I can think of is the camera (in the viewfinder and LCD) was trying to inform the photographer what the proper exposure would be (i.e. what they need to dial in to get "correct" exposure) given that the exposure compensation was changed by the user. Hope this makes sense... In other words, let's say the person dialed in -.7 exposure compensation. Would the LCD and Viewfinder show +.3 or something similar? What was the metering mode for the cameras set for?
Posted by John Reed on January 17, 2014 at 2:16 PM
Appreciate the fast input. Thanks. Correct, not flash compensation. Metering mode should be irrelevant since one will want to compensate in any mode but in this case it was matrix.
Not sure I follow you totally for the rest, but yes, in all cases the exp comp was set to a specific value numerically but the bars on the scale reflected a different setting. I don't recall the exact numbers as there were so many over multiple users. Earlier in the day during a private tutoring session the same thing happened with a D7100 so it made me think I was cursed for the day! I have an old D3100 donated to me for teaching here and when I manipulate the EC on it, the bars and numeric display match perfectly.
Without meaning this to come across as a slam against Nikon, I confess it does seem that in many cases there is some buried "permission" or other setting via a menu that changes the way normal button settings work so I'm wondering if that could be the case here. I am simply not expert enough with this brand to know. I have both D5100 and D7100 manuals downloaded and can easily find clear explanations for each on how to set the EC and both seem to indicate that the bars should match the number but I can't find in the manuals anything speaking directly to this issue of non-matching.
Posted by Richard Ditch on January 17, 2014 at 8:36 PM
I have no experience with the D5100, but browsing through the pdf reference manual from NikonUSA.com shows it is essentially the same as on my D70, D200, and D300 bodies. As the top illustration shows a dial is turned while the +/- button is held down to change the compensation in 1/3rd stops. The compensation value can be set to 1/2 stop increments if desired through the "b2" value in a camera menu.
The illustration shows that the amount of compensation is displayed in the viewfinder (-0.3 stops in the example), and on the LCD panel on top of the camera. There is also an "analog scale" that displays a pointer displaced from zero at the center; on this scale the larger marks represent full stops of compensation, while the smaller marks correspond to the increment value set in register b2. So a setting of -0.3 stops should move the pointer one small mark to the right (negative) side.
The illustration from my D300 user manual shows the scale better so I've included that above as well.
Please be more specific about what problem you think you were seeing. Was the displacement in the correct direction or not? Are you counting the offset correctly differentiating between partial and full stops?
it does seem that in many cases there is some buried "permission" or other setting via a menu that changes the way normal button settings work...
Yes, Nikon allows users to change the behavior of certain controls so that the camera can be set up the way the user prefers. On my D300 bodies I've made it possible to dial in exposure compensation without holding down the +/- button - that's just faster and more convenient for me. If I wanted I could change the increment for ISO to a full stop instead of the factory default 1/3rd stop. I could reverse the roles of the front and rear dials. Etc. I've reset the meter by 1/6th stop on both D300 bodies, and I've set up a definable function button on the front of the body to switch to spot metering so it is instantly available for backlit birds.
Well, this may give you all a big laugh, and it may not be relevant at all, but.... I can never get used to the default setting of + being on the left side of zero. I was making a lot of mistakes until I really noticed the default setting and that it was backwards of what I was assuming. Were your students all new to their cameras? And perhaps making the same assumption I was, without actually seeing that the default setting has the + compensation on the left of zero? If you're at all presbyopic or having to work with bifocals, it is difficult to see those tiny indicators. The + and - can be reversed by setting it in the menu.
Posted by John Reed on January 18, 2014 at 7:31 AM
Richard, thanks for all the effort of the cut and past on the manual but as I noted in my post, I too have the manual I downloaded and the issue is NOT with how to set compensation. Catherine, thank you as well but the issue is also has nothing to do with Nikon putting the plus compensation on the left side, contrary to every other camera in the world,
[quote] Please be more specific about what problem you think you were seeing. Was the displacement in the correct direction or not? Are you counting the offset correctly differentiating between partial and full stops? {/quote}
I can't be more specific than I've been, i.e. the issue is that the analog display does NOT match the numeric display when a compensation setting is set. So, for example, when the appropriate button is held and the appropriate dial is turned, the numeric display will show -1.3 but the analog display will display large and small bars indicating something totally different such as -2. I cannot replicate this behavior with the D3100 I have access to. With it, the numeric and analog match perfectly. Yes, both the analog scale and the numeric readout are moving in 1/3 stops. Yes, I am quite familiar with counting the number of bars and differentiating between the full and third stops.
Thanks
Catherine... If you are shooting Nikon there is a menu choice that will reverse this. I could never get used to it so I switched it and it now comes natural to me.
John, Could it be that the current light in the room was either changing as they moved the camera around or their steeing were off for the light so much that the meter was not able to register the exposure comp differences?
Posted by Linnet Long on January 18, 2014 at 10:09 AM
Maybe it's an undocumented issue with the D5100? Did every last one of the 5100 users have exactly the same issue? Maybe some dedicated Nikon forums would yield some info. (Like Nikonians, for example). Hope you get some satisfaction
Posted by John Reed on January 18, 2014 at 3:18 PM
Walt, Linnet, thanks - good thoughts. Walt, the light was different in different parts of the room. Might be a factor, but again, since I could not replicate this on the D3100 so I'm a bit doubtful. Good thought though. We can play more at the next class on Thursday if none of them have discovered the answer. Linnet, yes it was with 3 D5100's and also a D7100 I tutored earlier in the day. Good suggestion on the forums if they'll let a Canon guy in! :-)
Posted by Greg Vaughn on January 24, 2014 at 11:30 AM
"The metering scale both on the LCD and in the viewfinder did NOT match the compensation amount shown numerically in the small box."
I have a D7100, so maybe can help. First, some clarification: when you say "on the LCD", do you mean the large LCD display on the back of the camera? And when you say "small box" do you mean the small LCD on the top of the camera? Assuming that is what you mean, here's what I see:
If I set the exposure compensation to -2/3 using the button next to the shutter + command dial, the top LCD display will show a -0.7 while the EC button is held down, otherwise only a very small icon for +/-. The viewfinder display shows two bars to the left of the 0, but they don't extend as far as the first dot on that scale, which represents -1.
Where it gets confusing is that if I push the "info" button on the back of the camera, the large LCD shows a different scale with 4 bars (5 if you count the 0 mark) indicating the -2/3 EC, and they are located below a series of dots that indicate EC in 1/3 stops (larger dots indicate full stops).
This camera is using the default settings for these controls, and I think the D3100, D5100 and D7100 series are probably all the same in this area.
Did this help, or did I misinterpret your question?
Posted by John Reed on January 24, 2014 at 6:00 PM
Let's see if this works...Never have done it before and wish I could just paste it in here, but hopefully you'll see a jpg image of a D5000 LCD. It shows on both the analog scale and the +/- compensation box at the bottom of the screen matching "0" compensation amounts. The +/- compensation numerical box is what I was calling the "small box". So for these folks when they set a compensation amount of minus 0.7 as displayed in the +/- compensation box, the analog readout showed a number of bars that were equivalent to minus one and one third stops. And yes, we are looking at the exposure compensation +/- box and not the flash exposure compensation +/- box . Not sure if this helps or not and I sure thank you for your input. I think though maybe the ultimate answer is just have the reset the cameras to factory default and see if that clears it or not. Seems unlikely that more than one person would experience the same thing but who knows!
Discussion
11 repliesThey were in either aperture or shutter priority. They pushed the exposure compensation button located near the shutter button and then turned their command dial to set the amount. So far all is well. But here's where it went south. The metering scale both on the LCD and in the viewfinder did NOT match the compensation amount shown numerically in the small box. I believe the number in the box to be correct simply based on photos taken but why did the scale bars not line up to match the number readout????
Any help in understanding this will be appreciated.
Thanks,
John
The only thing I can think of is the camera (in the viewfinder and LCD) was trying to inform the photographer what the proper exposure would be (i.e. what they need to dial in to get "correct" exposure) given that the exposure compensation was changed by the user. Hope this makes sense... In other words, let's say the person dialed in -.7 exposure compensation. Would the LCD and Viewfinder show +.3 or something similar? What was the metering mode for the cameras set for?
Not sure I follow you totally for the rest, but yes, in all cases the exp comp was set to a specific value numerically but the bars on the scale reflected a different setting. I don't recall the exact numbers as there were so many over multiple users. Earlier in the day during a private tutoring session the same thing happened with a D7100 so it made me think I was cursed for the day! I have an old D3100 donated to me for teaching here and when I manipulate the EC on it, the bars and numeric display match perfectly.
Without meaning this to come across as a slam against Nikon, I confess it does seem that in many cases there is some buried "permission" or other setting via a menu that changes the way normal button settings work so I'm wondering if that could be the case here. I am simply not expert enough with this brand to know. I have both D5100 and D7100 manuals downloaded and can easily find clear explanations for each on how to set the EC and both seem to indicate that the bars should match the number but I can't find in the manuals anything speaking directly to this issue of non-matching.
The illustration shows that the amount of compensation is displayed in the viewfinder (-0.3 stops in the example), and on the LCD panel on top of the camera. There is also an "analog scale" that displays a pointer displaced from zero at the center; on this scale the larger marks represent full stops of compensation, while the smaller marks correspond to the increment value set in register b2. So a setting of -0.3 stops should move the pointer one small mark to the right (negative) side.
The illustration from my D300 user manual shows the scale better so I've included that above as well.
Please be more specific about what problem you think you were seeing. Was the displacement in the correct direction or not? Are you counting the offset correctly differentiating between partial and full stops?
Yes, Nikon allows users to change the behavior of certain controls so that the camera can be set up the way the user prefers. On my D300 bodies I've made it possible to dial in exposure compensation without holding down the +/- button - that's just faster and more convenient for me. If I wanted I could change the increment for ISO to a full stop instead of the factory default 1/3rd stop. I could reverse the roles of the front and rear dials. Etc. I've reset the meter by 1/6th stop on both D300 bodies, and I've set up a definable function button on the front of the body to switch to spot metering so it is instantly available for backlit birds.
[quote] Please be more specific about what problem you think you were seeing. Was the displacement in the correct direction or not? Are you counting the offset correctly differentiating between partial and full stops? {/quote}
I can't be more specific than I've been, i.e. the issue is that the analog display does NOT match the numeric display when a compensation setting is set. So, for example, when the appropriate button is held and the appropriate dial is turned, the numeric display will show -1.3 but the analog display will display large and small bars indicating something totally different such as -2. I cannot replicate this behavior with the D3100 I have access to. With it, the numeric and analog match perfectly. Yes, both the analog scale and the numeric readout are moving in 1/3 stops. Yes, I am quite familiar with counting the number of bars and differentiating between the full and third stops.
Thanks
I have a D7100, so maybe can help. First, some clarification: when you say "on the LCD", do you mean the large LCD display on the back of the camera? And when you say "small box" do you mean the small LCD on the top of the camera? Assuming that is what you mean, here's what I see:
If I set the exposure compensation to -2/3 using the button next to the shutter + command dial, the top LCD display will show a -0.7 while the EC button is held down, otherwise only a very small icon for +/-. The viewfinder display shows two bars to the left of the 0, but they don't extend as far as the first dot on that scale, which represents -1.
Where it gets confusing is that if I push the "info" button on the back of the camera, the large LCD shows a different scale with 4 bars (5 if you count the 0 mark) indicating the -2/3 EC, and they are located below a series of dots that indicate EC in 1/3 stops (larger dots indicate full stops).
This camera is using the default settings for these controls, and I think the D3100, D5100 and D7100 series are probably all the same in this area.
Did this help, or did I misinterpret your question?