Posted by Mike Smith on November 19, 2013 at 2:53 AM
Just a quick thought to this not renewing their membership and have said just how their photography has improved immensely from the fair critique and advice they had received here
is it not just a bit selfish to move on within a relatively short period of time - where do you think the experienced photographers came from to make the critique on your photos?
The loss of experience has a great risk of sinking the Forum once and for all which is a shame for the next batch of nature photographers looking for guidance………
is the Forum membership really that expensive when compared to the price of a packet of cigarettes or a pint of beer?
my tuppence
Posted by keith mitchell on November 19, 2013 at 3:23 AM
Mike you make a very good point I will stay and see how things work out ,as they say things are always changing so lets see.
Fully agree Mike, but then I've watched this happen time & again over the last ten years of UKNP (yes it has been that long).
Times change, technology changes and our ability to give time is being dramatically reduced by the encroachment of things like farcebook, twitter and all the photo sharing sites, leaving little time for proper commenting (as opposed to backslapping) and helping others. Some of you bemoan the "loss" of "professionals" here - but remember they have to earn a living, and that living isn't selling photos (as some of you discussed elsewhere on the net), instead it's milking you for money - for books, courses, workshops, photo safaris and tours so you can all take the same photos without really developing your own vision or individuality. UKNP and NPN don't do adverts, so we never pandered to the pro's cult of personality, nor their need to bombard you with adverts for workshops etc, so they came, stayed a while, then went when they couldn't get what they want - advertising and cash cows.
So, for those 'departing', good luck and I hope you remember the help you were given by members here on NPN (both UK and globally), and are as selfless at giving your help to those asking you for it in future. NPN may not be as glamorous looking these days as the newbies sites like 500pix etc, but it will still be around in some form or another for a long time yet. Remember too, that if some site is free, then someone has to pay somewhere, and with the likes of facebook etc it's you (your data and advert space) that's for sale... NPN has never followed that model.
Seems that some renewal notices were sent out in error...
I fully agree Mike, however to expand a little on my situation, I have been a member here for 9 of the forums 10 years and am in the lucky position of being professional but employed by a large organisation so at the moment I do not have to try coax people to hand over their hard earned cash...
Circumstances however do change, over the last year I have probably posted less than half a dozen times which, yes, does make the membership fee a little costly. early in 2015 I will be in a position where I will be making my own living, this means I will have even less time as I have to undergo a lot of study gaining qualification to undertake what I have planned...
Over the years I have obviously received a great deal of advice but I do feel that I have offered a goodly amount of help, blowing my own trumpet here, probably a lot more than most, not just in the forum, just look at my topic to reply figures. So I think I am safe in saying that I am not leaving after having learnt from the members here without giving anything back,
I still have longer on my membership than I thought so will still be around and may well be back at some time, As I said elsewhere, I am looking forward to 2015 with some excitement but also a great deal of trepidation, oh of course really looking forward to not having to catch a train into London 5 days a week and being too exhausted at the weekend to really think about getting out with the cameras....
Posted by John Robinson on November 19, 2013 at 6:15 AM
Good points raised Phil/Mike /Nick
I have to be rearlly honest and just say that my reason for not renewing is purely due to the actions and attidudes of one or two people. who I went out of my way to help, when they barely knew which end the lens went on. So that is a selfish and childish reason you may think.- so be it - that is the way I am.
There will always also be those who post on a critique forum but don't actually like it when they get it.
I have made many good friends whilst on here and wish them all well.
JR
Posted by Barry Southon on November 19, 2013 at 6:59 AM
Mike
"Guilty as charged" your description fits the bill I lurked for a year, then joined for a year as a taster and renewed for two three year stretches, so I've taken full advantage of the deal that was offered. I knew less than ziltch when I started even the terms used in explanations had me beat. The transition from Brownie 125 to DSLR with a thirty year gap was a huge jump. In fact I asked myself on a number of occasions and also on the forum should I be here?
I used the forum to my full advantage as a learning tool a fact I declared from the off and repeated several times.The support and advice offered I always appreciated and totally acknowledged. I had no idea how to deal with comments in fact I struggled with justification in commenting on others who had far more knowledge on the subject than I.
Nick's comments hit the spot forum's go through phases or cycles whatever you want to call it, "Cliques" developed on UKPN which really was detrimental and totally counterproductive in my humble opinion.
Of late when people who should know better send off forum snide emails then profess shock and horror when a recipient responds it's time in my case to call it a day.
I had not intended commenting further Mike but out of respect to you I wanted to set the record straight. I do not run underground I face issues head on and deal with them.
I wish you well.
Posted by Nick Mckeown on November 19, 2013 at 1:29 PM
Mike, I have been a member for two years and posted 221 images in that time which equates to over 2 a week on average. I also commented over 1,500 times in that same period so feel that whilst I learned a lot from the forum I also shared my knowledge and experiences too. The forum went into terminal decline this summer with hardly any one posting and those that did not getting comments so I do not think I am selfish in "moving on" as you put it. I am not moving on to another forum as I do not participate in any others and I admit I will miss this forum but as the saying goes "use it, or lose it" I might also mention that as far as I am aware no other new members have joined this forum since I joined in 2011 so I feel that Nick's optimism is a little misplaced. Far too many members just dipped into the forum when the mood took them and it was only a small core of regular users who kept it alive. Now even they have got fed up with little or no comments. I am not bitter in any way only sad that it has come to this and I am sure the rest feel the same.
Nick.
Posted by Phil Ellard on November 19, 2013 at 2:48 PM
20 months 100 topics 1000 replies
Posted by Mike Smith on November 20, 2013 at 3:17 AM
Nick (The Mod)
Also good points, I have been here quite a while too and now generally have less time to photograph subjects, but my cycle will change and some time I will get out more often, I think on average my time per day this summer for my orchid images was about 2 hours, an hour travelling and an hour photographing so you don't necessarily need full days to enjoy nature photography, you just need to know your subject. And there lies a possible difference between a nature photographer and a photographer of nature? - not meant as a poke at anyone.
In my time here I have seen three distinct peaks and troughs of posting/cliques forming/moving on. It is the natural cycle of forums, however this "exit" seems more extensive than usual and the forum has become very quite of late.
I just hope to have pricked a few consciouses and that we retain a few people
Posted by David Sewell on November 20, 2013 at 9:25 AM
200 topics, 3400 comments I hope amounts to both sufficient posts and enough help to newcomers. However, there have been too many months recently when I thought I was flogging a dead horse (well me and two or three others), and I now simply feel it is time to move on.
Mike wrote "...full days to enjoy nature photography, you just need to know your subject. And there lies a possible difference between a nature photographer and a photographer of nature? " :-)
You know Mike - that is the hardest concept in nature photography to get across - that the camera is secondary. Some like what they know and know what they like and simply cannot accept another avenue of thought/deed/intent.
It's sad to see good people go but people will always go, it is the nature of humanity to move on; we are all nomads in some way.
Those above, as a (now) bystander I can clearly see the effort you have put in; good luck with the future, don't be a stranger for so many others you assume have left haven't; they are just quiet; watching - for in their life time is presently against them. Maybe you can do the same?
T
Posted by John MacTavish on November 27, 2013 at 6:16 PM
Like many others who have frequented this forum since the beginning I have found my own markets for the pics I take.
Mostly they are not nature related but they have been taken with some knowledge gained through the critique given in this forum. I'm happy to stay a bit longer and look and comment on photos that take my eye, I'll not be posting many because nature stuff is being done by those better placed to do it than I. Taking nature shots doesn't really float my boat any more but looking at nature photos is not hard to do and any comments I leave will always be how I see the pic.
Hope to see some friends I've given advice to begin posting on here soon. Always good to se new faces and ideas
Discussion
11 repliesis it not just a bit selfish to move on within a relatively short period of time - where do you think the experienced photographers came from to make the critique on your photos?
The loss of experience has a great risk of sinking the Forum once and for all which is a shame for the next batch of nature photographers looking for guidance………
is the Forum membership really that expensive when compared to the price of a packet of cigarettes or a pint of beer?
my tuppence
Keith.
Times change, technology changes and our ability to give time is being dramatically reduced by the encroachment of things like farcebook, twitter and all the photo sharing sites, leaving little time for proper commenting (as opposed to backslapping) and helping others. Some of you bemoan the "loss" of "professionals" here - but remember they have to earn a living, and that living isn't selling photos (as some of you discussed elsewhere on the net), instead it's milking you for money - for books, courses, workshops, photo safaris and tours so you can all take the same photos without really developing your own vision or individuality. UKNP and NPN don't do adverts, so we never pandered to the pro's cult of personality, nor their need to bombard you with adverts for workshops etc, so they came, stayed a while, then went when they couldn't get what they want - advertising and cash cows.
So, for those 'departing', good luck and I hope you remember the help you were given by members here on NPN (both UK and globally), and are as selfless at giving your help to those asking you for it in future. NPN may not be as glamorous looking these days as the newbies sites like 500pix etc, but it will still be around in some form or another for a long time yet. Remember too, that if some site is free, then someone has to pay somewhere, and with the likes of facebook etc it's you (your data and advert space) that's for sale... NPN has never followed that model.
I fully agree Mike, however to expand a little on my situation, I have been a member here for 9 of the forums 10 years and am in the lucky position of being professional but employed by a large organisation so at the moment I do not have to try coax people to hand over their hard earned cash...
Circumstances however do change, over the last year I have probably posted less than half a dozen times which, yes, does make the membership fee a little costly. early in 2015 I will be in a position where I will be making my own living, this means I will have even less time as I have to undergo a lot of study gaining qualification to undertake what I have planned...
Over the years I have obviously received a great deal of advice but I do feel that I have offered a goodly amount of help, blowing my own trumpet here, probably a lot more than most, not just in the forum, just look at my topic to reply figures. So I think I am safe in saying that I am not leaving after having learnt from the members here without giving anything back,
I still have longer on my membership than I thought so will still be around and may well be back at some time, As I said elsewhere, I am looking forward to 2015 with some excitement but also a great deal of trepidation, oh of course really looking forward to not having to catch a train into London 5 days a week and being too exhausted at the weekend to really think about getting out with the cameras....
I have to be rearlly honest and just say that my reason for not renewing is purely due to the actions and attidudes of one or two people. who I went out of my way to help, when they barely knew which end the lens went on. So that is a selfish and childish reason you may think.- so be it - that is the way I am.
There will always also be those who post on a critique forum but don't actually like it when they get it.
I have made many good friends whilst on here and wish them all well.
JR
"Guilty as charged" your description fits the bill I lurked for a year, then joined for a year as a taster and renewed for two three year stretches, so I've taken full advantage of the deal that was offered. I knew less than ziltch when I started even the terms used in explanations had me beat. The transition from Brownie 125 to DSLR with a thirty year gap was a huge jump. In fact I asked myself on a number of occasions and also on the forum should I be here?
I used the forum to my full advantage as a learning tool a fact I declared from the off and repeated several times.The support and advice offered I always appreciated and totally acknowledged. I had no idea how to deal with comments in fact I struggled with justification in commenting on others who had far more knowledge on the subject than I.
Nick's comments hit the spot forum's go through phases or cycles whatever you want to call it, "Cliques" developed on UKPN which really was detrimental and totally counterproductive in my humble opinion.
Of late when people who should know better send off forum snide emails then profess shock and horror when a recipient responds it's time in my case to call it a day.
I had not intended commenting further Mike but out of respect to you I wanted to set the record straight. I do not run underground I face issues head on and deal with them.
I wish you well.
Nick.
Also good points, I have been here quite a while too and now generally have less time to photograph subjects, but my cycle will change and some time I will get out more often, I think on average my time per day this summer for my orchid images was about 2 hours, an hour travelling and an hour photographing so you don't necessarily need full days to enjoy nature photography, you just need to know your subject. And there lies a possible difference between a nature photographer and a photographer of nature? - not meant as a poke at anyone.
In my time here I have seen three distinct peaks and troughs of posting/cliques forming/moving on. It is the natural cycle of forums, however this "exit" seems more extensive than usual and the forum has become very quite of late.
I just hope to have pricked a few consciouses and that we retain a few people
David
You know Mike - that is the hardest concept in nature photography to get across - that the camera is secondary. Some like what they know and know what they like and simply cannot accept another avenue of thought/deed/intent.
It's sad to see good people go but people will always go, it is the nature of humanity to move on; we are all nomads in some way.
Those above, as a (now) bystander I can clearly see the effort you have put in; good luck with the future, don't be a stranger for so many others you assume have left haven't; they are just quiet; watching - for in their life time is presently against them. Maybe you can do the same?
T
Mostly they are not nature related but they have been taken with some knowledge gained through the critique given in this forum. I'm happy to stay a bit longer and look and comment on photos that take my eye, I'll not be posting many because nature stuff is being done by those better placed to do it than I. Taking nature shots doesn't really float my boat any more but looking at nature photos is not hard to do and any comments I leave will always be how I see the pic.
Hope to see some friends I've given advice to begin posting on here soon. Always good to se new faces and ideas
John