While we all want our photos (each worth a thousand words!!) to speak for us, there are some among us that could clean up our act in the spelling and grammar department. Firstly, every browser has a spell checker, so there is no reason for misspelling words, at least the obvious ones. Each word to be checked should have a wavy red line beneath it. Grammar is more difficult, but having the verbs agree with the subject is a major first step (I am, he is, we are, etc.). Ditto with the plurality and singularity (they are vs. they is).
Here are some of the worst offenders in spelling/grammar confusion:
definately should be definitely
using "your" when the contraction "you're" is correct
skiddish should be skittish
using "to" when "too" is meant
I am far from a perfect speller, and certainly only comfortable with basic grammar. But I do proofread what I write and catch most mistakes. My feeling, in a public forum where the critical and non-critical alike come to browse and view our efforts, is that we should be putting our best foot forward in both what we describe and in the images we take.
Posted by Bill Chambers on January 19, 2013 at 12:16 PM
Thank you Phil!! You really hit a pet peave of mine with this.
Posted by David Bostedo on January 19, 2013 at 12:57 PM
Umm... Bill... I hope you intentionally spelled "pet peeve" like that.
Amen. Some of the workshop listings, in particular, are so full of grammatical and spelling errors I just couldn't see that person teaching anything. Many of us will never meet each other, so the words we write speak for us. They make either a positive or a negative impression.
I was a newspaper editor for 14 years, edited technical writing and grants for an overlapping 30 years, and have written for newspapers for over 30 years, the last 20+ as a featured columnist. As you might guess, I've seen it all.
But here's the deal for me- I'm more interested in an individual's thoughts in informal writing, such as on the web. Sure it's nice when they go back and clean it up, but if their thoughts come through in spite of errors, I can live with it.
But here's another part of the deal- Sloppy writing and failure to self-edit can become a seriously bad habit, one that translates over into anything the person writes for publication and self-promotion or ads. You'd think that they'd at least get it right when they're selling themselves and trying to make a good impression on prospective clients.
It's not just sad to see, it also creates a very bad impression on me, the potential consumer. It might be my editor gland acting up, but I always question how reliable they'll be with my accounts and needs if they are so sloppy with their own nearest and dearest projects.
I don't claim to be perfect in my writing and spelling for the web, rather I fall into the informality just like most everyone else. But I strive to be as correct as possible in all other venues. The funny thing is, after the fact I've found errors in my own columns that passed through my editing, the paper's copy editor, the editor himself and even the publisher to make it into print. Whateryagonnado?
Posted by Lon Overacker on January 19, 2013 at 3:15 PM
Good topic Phil. (Wait, no verb, so is that a proper sentence?) Seriously, it can be annoying and I agree folks should always proof their writing and there's really no excuse for not using the spell checkers. I'm probably one of the guilty ones since I probably type more words than most, so that increases my odds of not catching mistakes. I'm guessing others have this problem too, but I often find that because I'm typing too fast, or typing lags thought, that I'll actually leave out words in a sentence and even miss the fact that I've used a word improperly (their,there,they're, to,too, etc.) Re-reading and editing your words catches most of that, but not always.
In the grand scheme of things I'm with Hank in that if a persons message comes through, I can look past mistakes.
Yours is a friendly reminder, but I would also caution folks in making judgments (no one is here btw.) As an example, another forum I frequent there is an individual who got lambasted for poor writing, grammar and spelling errors. A recent post:
"we added couple new recipes we havent mention on the share! one is for breakfast or salad and the other is a smoothie! yum good! hopefully in a few day more recipes we mention on share!"
Several members of the forum literally bullied this person online; you know how easy it is to do on the internet. Finally, the individual wrote a post explaining they had a learning disability and dyslexia. Kinda put a lid on further criticisms.
Lon
Posted by John Mumaw on January 19, 2013 at 6:29 PM
Please, please use 'complement' instead of 'compliment' when referring to elements that enhance or complete the overall scene.
Thank you.
Posted by Lon Overacker on January 19, 2013 at 6:57 PM
That''s a good one John. I'm quite guilty of using that myself. Kinda like "wonder" and "wander." Wait, a more proper sentence might be: Much like the words "wonder" and "wander." I ain't no English major. ;-)
Informal discussion and even vernacular for emphasis are not a problem with me. English is, after all, a "mutt" language that borrows freely from both other languages and colloquialisms of the times. That's cool. It doesn't take an English major to spell correctly, however; just a little due diligence and homework. Use the same eyes God gave you to see your words as He gave you to see your images, and construct them with precision and imagination.
BTW, I have edited my original post twice, finding one punctuation error and a double "and and". Ain't nobody perfect!
I can look past some spelling and grammatical errors as long as I am able to understand what the writer is saying. There are some errors that really grate, and these were pointed to in Phil's original post.
Another of my pet peeves are acronyms for which there is no explanation as to what they mean. There are lots of them used on photography sites, NPN included. If you use an acronym, please tell us what it stands for early in the post. For example, "LENR" (Long Exposure Noise Reduction).
There also appears to be a penchant for very long paragraphs. Given the sans-serif fonts used on the Web, long paragraphs are difficult to read. Please, keep them short.
Oh, and please don't use text message-style writing! That stuff drives me bonkers! Do yu no what I mean?
Hey, are you guys talking about me?!!!!!! I figure I'm one of the worst offenders. I'd like to think I'm actually smarter than my writing illustrates. But, I have fat fingers and tend to hit too many, or the wrong keys quite a bit. Surprisingly, I do get out the dictionary and look up words fairly often. But the only time I use spell checking is when I am sending an email. Before I started participating on this site, I never wrote anything! It was an eye opener as to how many words I naturally spelled incorrectly. I still do the "definatley" thing and the "compliment" thing and don't realize it.
Chris
Posted by Buck Ward on January 20, 2013 at 1:42 PM
"Good grammar is like personal hygiene. You can ignore it if you like, but don't be surprised when people draw their conclusions."
Like others, I'm willing to overlook a little sloppiness if the intent is clear, but slovenliness grates. I'm a good speller and a poor typist. There are a few words that I never can type correctly, such as 'utilities', so I'm glad for the squiggly red underlines, which have shown up in this post several times. I've caught myself having used their for there or they're on occasion. I know the difference, but somehow, mistakes like that still creep in from time to time. Ouch!
I've seen some horrendous examples of writing, not here particularly, but especially on Facebook, by people I know and think highly of (or should that be 'of whom I think highly'?). I was educated a long time ago in the public schools of a southern state renowned for its poor school systems, but I think that people who graduated from high school more recently make my education look good. Grammar and sentence structure obviously are harder for some folks, and sometimes license and colloquial or informal usages are perfectly fine, but playing by the rules of our language helps get the ideas across.
Bottom line: Here on NPN, I guess we should just grin and bear it and try to set a good example.
Posted by David Bostedo on January 20, 2013 at 2:37 PM
One exception I wanted to mention : Often online a lot of participants don't speak English as their first language. In that case they should be given as much lee-way as possible; I appreciate that they want to participate, and certainly we don't want to discourage them!
I think I am part Hank and part Chris. Most of what I read doesn't bother me too much. It is all part of the "show". My only complaint is that the NPN spell checker doesn't work as well as my regular spell checker. I often have to go back and edit after posting because the spell check misses things. For others, I don't much care, but I realize that literacy is equated with credibility, for better or worse.
One thing we all need to remember is that members who write in English as a second language less than perfectly, probably write perfectly in their own language, which we may not be able to read at all! I agree with David, tolerance is both commendable and appropriate for those members. They are at least one language ahead of most of us—certainly me!
Posted by Jim Erhardt on January 27, 2013 at 7:26 AM
Grate thread!
Seriously, we should all strive to perfect our spelling and grammar as much as our photography. This is especially true if one depends on photography as part of their income.
Many good points made, a very useful ( perhaps even great ) thread!
M8t, me spellunking un grmmer has alway bin badd. Tis not wat I'm hair for though, I hear for dem photo stuff.
I mean how do you spell colour, does you car have a boot or a trunk, does it come with tyres or tires, whats up front, bonnet or hood. Bet you even drive on the wrong side of the road
Interesting topic, just seeing it now for the first time. I've actually been amazed at the high-end websites of some of our top photographers that are filled with spelling errors, lol! I've wanted to write them but thought I'd just be a nuisance, so I let it lay. Hey, we're artists, isn't there leeway for that??
There are actually two that drive me nuts: first is, you lose your mind, you don't loose your mind (that one has become popular in the last few years), and Letterman's #1 on the Top Ten: I don't take photograph's, I take photographs!!
(Quick update: all of my posts, ALL of them, will always show that they've been edited, because I'm a rotten typist and have to fix spelling errors all the time, this post included! I feel bad for the original poster, they get an email box full of my edits, lol.)
Discussion
18 repliesHere are some of the worst offenders in spelling/grammar confusion:
definately should be definitely
using "your" when the contraction "you're" is correct
skiddish should be skittish
using "to" when "too" is meant
I am far from a perfect speller, and certainly only comfortable with basic grammar. But I do proofread what I write and catch most mistakes. My feeling, in a public forum where the critical and non-critical alike come to browse and view our efforts, is that we should be putting our best foot forward in both what we describe and in the images we take.
Sandy
But here's the deal for me- I'm more interested in an individual's thoughts in informal writing, such as on the web. Sure it's nice when they go back and clean it up, but if their thoughts come through in spite of errors, I can live with it.
But here's another part of the deal- Sloppy writing and failure to self-edit can become a seriously bad habit, one that translates over into anything the person writes for publication and self-promotion or ads. You'd think that they'd at least get it right when they're selling themselves and trying to make a good impression on prospective clients.
It's not just sad to see, it also creates a very bad impression on me, the potential consumer. It might be my editor gland acting up, but I always question how reliable they'll be with my accounts and needs if they are so sloppy with their own nearest and dearest projects.
I don't claim to be perfect in my writing and spelling for the web, rather I fall into the informality just like most everyone else. But I strive to be as correct as possible in all other venues. The funny thing is, after the fact I've found errors in my own columns that passed through my editing, the paper's copy editor, the editor himself and even the publisher to make it into print. Whateryagonnado?
In the grand scheme of things I'm with Hank in that if a persons message comes through, I can look past mistakes.
Yours is a friendly reminder, but I would also caution folks in making judgments (no one is here btw.) As an example, another forum I frequent there is an individual who got lambasted for poor writing, grammar and spelling errors. A recent post:
"we added couple new recipes we havent mention on the share! one is for breakfast or salad and the other is a smoothie! yum good! hopefully in a few day more recipes we mention on share!"
Several members of the forum literally bullied this person online; you know how easy it is to do on the internet. Finally, the individual wrote a post explaining they had a learning disability and dyslexia. Kinda put a lid on further criticisms.
Lon
Thank you.
BTW, I have edited my original post twice, finding one punctuation error and a double "and and". Ain't nobody perfect!
Another of my pet peeves are acronyms for which there is no explanation as to what they mean. There are lots of them used on photography sites, NPN included. If you use an acronym, please tell us what it stands for early in the post. For example, "LENR" (Long Exposure Noise Reduction).
There also appears to be a penchant for very long paragraphs. Given the sans-serif fonts used on the Web, long paragraphs are difficult to read. Please, keep them short.
Oh, and please don't use text message-style writing! That stuff drives me bonkers! Do yu no what I mean?
</end minor rant>
--P
Chris
Like others, I'm willing to overlook a little sloppiness if the intent is clear, but slovenliness grates. I'm a good speller and a poor typist. There are a few words that I never can type correctly, such as 'utilities', so I'm glad for the squiggly red underlines, which have shown up in this post several times. I've caught myself having used their for there or they're on occasion. I know the difference, but somehow, mistakes like that still creep in from time to time. Ouch!
I've seen some horrendous examples of writing, not here particularly, but especially on Facebook, by people I know and think highly of (or should that be 'of whom I think highly'?). I was educated a long time ago in the public schools of a southern state renowned for its poor school systems, but I think that people who graduated from high school more recently make my education look good. Grammar and sentence structure obviously are harder for some folks, and sometimes license and colloquial or informal usages are perfectly fine, but playing by the rules of our language helps get the ideas across.
Bottom line: Here on NPN, I guess we should just grin and bear it and try to set a good example.
Seriously, we should all strive to perfect our spelling and grammar as much as our photography. This is especially true if one depends on photography as part of their income.
Many good points made, a very useful ( perhaps even great ) thread!
I mean how do you spell colour, does you car have a boot or a trunk, does it come with tyres or tires, whats up front, bonnet or hood. Bet you even drive on the wrong side of the road
I am a Kiwi, but don't you call me a fruit !!
See ya gots to be carful
Danny...... or is that Dunny
There are actually two that drive me nuts: first is, you lose your mind, you don't loose your mind (that one has become popular in the last few years), and Letterman's #1 on the Top Ten: I don't take photograph's, I take photographs!!
(Quick update: all of my posts, ALL of them, will always show that they've been edited, because I'm a rotten typist and have to fix spelling errors all the time, this post included! I feel bad for the original poster, they get an email box full of my edits, lol.)