Posted by Jeremy Turner on April 27, 2006 at 10:50 PM
Hi everyone
I just completed my first exhibition, and I'm very happy with the outcome (from both sales and feedback). I've also had a business proposal. I've been asked to supply artwork for an eco-resort in Australia. It's currently under construction, and will consist of 211 self-contained stand-alone units, a theatre building, and a reception building. I know from a very reliable source that the project has funding, and will be completed in about 1 year.
The proposal involves me supplying the framed artwork for the resort (probably in stages as they’re built, i.e. not all the 211 units at once). The images will consist of ones from the local area (which I don’t have yet), plus ones I already have. So it will require a few photographic trips to the area at different times of the year.
The images will be marked for sale, and there will be matted-only images available in the reception area. Commission on sales will be taken by the resort owners (the rate hasn’t been negotiated yet).
My question concerns what I should ask of the owners before entering into an agreement with them. The quantity of images will be large, and as such, will require considerable expense and time to produce (as I also do my own framing). Furthermore, as I need to produce images from the local area, I’ll need to take a few trips there to gather enough quality images. I’m thinking I should (at least) request up-front payment for all materials required to produce the images, plus travel expenses to the area for the photographic trips.
As I’m new to this sort of proposal, I would really welcome any suggestions (both positive and negative) on how best to approach this issue.
Cheers
Jeremy Turner
www.jturnerphotography.com
Posted by Randy Beacham on April 28, 2006 at 2:17 AM
Hi Jeremy,
Sounds like it could be a real positive business experience for you if carried out right. I really don't make many print sales and haven't sold anything on a scale that size, but I'll still throw out my opinion
First of all, I'm not real clear on whether you are saying you'll get paid by the resort for the wall decor that will be going in the rooms or not. If this is still up in the air, I would say that you should be selling your matted prints for the rooms for a set price per image based on the size of the matted artwork. I would never supply all that work on a consignment kind of basis. It would be a huge financial risk for you if you did. At least in the editorial market I've found that I makes sales by selling images, not by exposure I get by having a creditline--which I guess in your case would be with business cards and price lists for the images.I would guess that, even if you have great images, which you must if you did well in your exhibit, you would find that not many people staying in motel rooms would be interested in purchasing prints. I think you would be far better off leasing a seperate room or space where your images are displayed properly for sale.
As for having matted-only prints for sale in the reception room, commissions can vary greatly but it seems to me that a normal deal like this would involve something like a 70-30 split, where you get 70% of sales. But again, there's probably people here at NPN that have experience in this venue that can give you better advice than myself.
How you approach shooting in the local area is another aspect that can vary widely. I would think that if they are buying prints directly from you for the rooms and do not have specific requests for subjects then you should probably foot the bill yourself.
If, however, they want specific subjects and want to use the images for more things than wall decor, ie., commercial reasons, such as brochures, ads, etc., then the best option would be to write up an estimate for the work and charge them a daily or creative fee + expenses. Even if they state at first that they only want to use the images as wall decor you should have paperwork written up that makes it clear you are not selling the images for any uses other than for wall decor. Of course, if you're only supplying the final prints and not digital files then that shouldn't be a problem. The one thing I would never do, unless somebody offered to pay me a nice retirement fund , is sign over copyrights to any images you produce. Even if they were to hire you to photograph local scenes, you are the creative person as well as an independent contractor (as opoosed to someone working for them on staff) so retaining your control over the images via copyright is your way of making future income from the work.
I've probably muddied up the waters more than make things clear for you. By the way, congratulations on a succesful first exhibit! I may be doing my first gallery exhibit this summer and if I can break even on costs while making some future contacts I'll be happy. Randy
Posted by Jeremy Turner on April 29, 2006 at 7:22 PM
Hi Randy
Thank you for the in-depth response. You've given me plenty to think about.
I'm still unsure what to do about this proposal, but I'm definitely not rushing into it. I feel that perhaps my time (and money) will be better spent on projects that I have more control over.
Best regards
Jeremy
Posted by Walter Rowe on April 30, 2006 at 2:42 PM
If they are making specific requirements about images they want (i.e. local scenery to the resort area), then they are in essence commissioning you to provide that work. In that case, it is fair to ask for all expenses associated with capturing those images (time, travel, lodging, meals, production costs for equipment and supplies, entrance fees to restricted area, etc). You would need to document an estimate of all of these expenses for them and get them to sign an agreement that they will pay for them. Include in that agreement how much of the total expenses they are willing to advance. If the expenses are high, it is fair that they should advance you a sizable portion (perhaps 50%) and pay the balance when the first set of images is delivered. These expenses are completely separate from the price of the images and should be documented as such.
Then you have to ask whether you will own the copyrights to the pictures or them? I assume you since you say they pieces will be marked for sale. In that case, there would be an income split as Randy say (perhaps 70/30 in your favor). Just make sure the retail price includes plenty of profit above and beyond all production, matting, framing and shipping costs. Its not a good deal for you if your share of the retail price does not cover your costs to produce, matte, frame and ship the images to them plus a fair profit.
Good luck. It sounds like to good opportunity if it is negotiated right and they are fair about it.
Discussion
3 repliesI just completed my first exhibition, and I'm very happy with the outcome (from both sales and feedback). I've also had a business proposal. I've been asked to supply artwork for an eco-resort in Australia. It's currently under construction, and will consist of 211 self-contained stand-alone units, a theatre building, and a reception building. I know from a very reliable source that the project has funding, and will be completed in about 1 year.
The proposal involves me supplying the framed artwork for the resort (probably in stages as they’re built, i.e. not all the 211 units at once). The images will consist of ones from the local area (which I don’t have yet), plus ones I already have. So it will require a few photographic trips to the area at different times of the year.
The images will be marked for sale, and there will be matted-only images available in the reception area. Commission on sales will be taken by the resort owners (the rate hasn’t been negotiated yet).
My question concerns what I should ask of the owners before entering into an agreement with them. The quantity of images will be large, and as such, will require considerable expense and time to produce (as I also do my own framing). Furthermore, as I need to produce images from the local area, I’ll need to take a few trips there to gather enough quality images. I’m thinking I should (at least) request up-front payment for all materials required to produce the images, plus travel expenses to the area for the photographic trips.
As I’m new to this sort of proposal, I would really welcome any suggestions (both positive and negative) on how best to approach this issue.
Cheers
Jeremy Turner
www.jturnerphotography.com
Sounds like it could be a real positive business experience for you if carried out right. I really don't make many print sales and haven't sold anything on a scale that size, but I'll still throw out my opinion
First of all, I'm not real clear on whether you are saying you'll get paid by the resort for the wall decor that will be going in the rooms or not. If this is still up in the air, I would say that you should be selling your matted prints for the rooms for a set price per image based on the size of the matted artwork. I would never supply all that work on a consignment kind of basis. It would be a huge financial risk for you if you did. At least in the editorial market I've found that I makes sales by selling images, not by exposure I get by having a creditline--which I guess in your case would be with business cards and price lists for the images.I would guess that, even if you have great images, which you must if you did well in your exhibit, you would find that not many people staying in motel rooms would be interested in purchasing prints. I think you would be far better off leasing a seperate room or space where your images are displayed properly for sale.
As for having matted-only prints for sale in the reception room, commissions can vary greatly but it seems to me that a normal deal like this would involve something like a 70-30 split, where you get 70% of sales. But again, there's probably people here at NPN that have experience in this venue that can give you better advice than myself.
How you approach shooting in the local area is another aspect that can vary widely. I would think that if they are buying prints directly from you for the rooms and do not have specific requests for subjects then you should probably foot the bill yourself.
If, however, they want specific subjects and want to use the images for more things than wall decor, ie., commercial reasons, such as brochures, ads, etc., then the best option would be to write up an estimate for the work and charge them a daily or creative fee + expenses. Even if they state at first that they only want to use the images as wall decor you should have paperwork written up that makes it clear you are not selling the images for any uses other than for wall decor. Of course, if you're only supplying the final prints and not digital files then that shouldn't be a problem. The one thing I would never do, unless somebody offered to pay me a nice retirement fund
I've probably muddied up the waters more than make things clear for you. By the way, congratulations on a succesful first exhibit! I may be doing my first gallery exhibit this summer and if I can break even on costs while making some future contacts I'll be happy. Randy
Thank you for the in-depth response. You've given me plenty to think about.
I'm still unsure what to do about this proposal, but I'm definitely not rushing into it. I feel that perhaps my time (and money) will be better spent on projects that I have more control over.
Best regards
Jeremy
Then you have to ask whether you will own the copyrights to the pictures or them? I assume you since you say they pieces will be marked for sale. In that case, there would be an income split as Randy say (perhaps 70/30 in your favor). Just make sure the retail price includes plenty of profit above and beyond all production, matting, framing and shipping costs. Its not a good deal for you if your share of the retail price does not cover your costs to produce, matte, frame and ship the images to them plus a fair profit.
Good luck. It sounds like to good opportunity if it is negotiated right and they are fair about it.