Hi All,
I believe that one of the differences between a Pro photographer and a hobby photographer is, knowing when conditions are right for the vision of your image. Yeah, I know there are hobbiests that know how to read and anticipate conditions, but as a Pro, this is kind of expected. Maybe thats why some folks spend days out at the same spot waiting for just the right conditions. Well I would love to be able to do that, but just cannot yet. So, I'd like to learn how to best guess when conditions are where I need them to be. I have no issues with conditions like temp, sun rise/set..but how about fog, a beautiful cloud and color-filled sky in the morning or evening for that matter? I'm sure there are other weather phenomena that I'm just not thinking of right now. Does anyone know of a good book that will teach me how to read weather conditions for anticipating those things? Would greatly appreciate any info you could provide.
Thanks!
Marie
Posted by Lon Overacker on November 1, 2011 at 12:19 PM
Marie,
I'm sorry to be the first to disagree with your premise that only pro photographers know when the conditions are right "for the vision of your image." IMHO, the only difference really is the ability to market oneself and have a keen business mind. There are gobs of "hobbyists" who do very well with vision, understanding light (and conditions) and in general create wonderful art. Don't get me wrong, that's not to say that the pro does not have these qualities, the most often do, but their talents also extent to marketing and technically they're a professional because they derive most of not all their income from photography.
"Maybe thats why some folks spend days out at the same spot waiting for just the right conditions"
Yes, many people do spend days or even weeks attempting to capture the perfect conditions. And someone who is a professional, well, it's really their day job so that's what they do. It doesn't mean the hobbyist or anyone else couldn't recognize or take advantage of the conditions give all that time in the field.
Having said that, I hope I can still offer some advice. Personally, it's really less about guessing or knowing what the conditions will or might be. It's more about being able to handle those conditions when the arise. In other words, knowing when and how to select an aperture for depth of field, shutter speeds to create or freeze motion and exposures for handling dynamic light. The more proficient you are with your equipment, the more second nature it becomes and you can concentrate on your vision and creating photographs rather than just taking them.
Understanding conditions though is really about knowing a place. Being familiar and intimate with a location allows you to be much more successful in predicting and understanding weather patterns, light patterns, etc. Then you're able to put yourself in position to take advantage of those conditions because of your familiarity with the place.
Hope this helps. And it's a very good topic, I hope to hear others chime in.
Lon
Posted by Joe Holly on November 1, 2011 at 12:35 PM
Hello Marie,
I'm new here, but it seems that you are approaching this from the wrong direction. Visualizing comes, I think, from experience. The best way to understand and use lighting conditions is to get out into it and look around. See what it is that interests or excites you. Shoot it. Then check over what you get and learn from what didn't work. I would guess that you are over-intellectualizing this. "Look at the light," is advice I used to give. "See what it is doing." Light can be hard. Light can be soft. Side light has a different effect from back light. And front light should, for the most part, be avoided. Noon-hour light shines straight down and creates ugly shadows. Low-angle light, such as sunrise or sunset, can be dramatic and beautiful -- especilly when it warms up. So, get out there, Marie, and observe and shoot and shoot and observe some more. One little hint: vegetation, as a rule, is most beautiful (my opinion) the closer it is to the sun. Of course, you have lens-flare issues to deal with, but that adds to the challenge. Light is your medium, Look at it and see what it does. best wishes, joe holly
Posted by Howard Cihak on November 1, 2011 at 12:51 PM
Not to disagree with the previous posts (they do make some good points), but to answer your primary question, I would think just about any library book that deals with the general subject of meteorology in layman's terms will improve your knowledge of how to do a little local weather forecasting of your own. Thanks to the Weather Channel and other national weather information sources, a lot of the basic information is already out there. It's just a matter of knowing a little bit about what it all potentially means.
Thanks all!
Lon: I didn't say that only pro photographers know when conditions are right. "I know there are hobbyists that know how to read and anticipate conditions, but as a Pro, this is kind of expected." Yep, I can handle the conditions (well some of them anyway), if I could just guess, or have a pretty good judge of what the conditions would be. Specifically, I have a place in mind that would look super cool with fog. I am also pretty much limited to shooting on weekend mornings. There was no fog this weekend (or very little) so I could not capture my vision for the image. Now, comes this morning, on a day that I have to work...tons of fog! Now, if I could have predicted, or even guestimated that there would have been fog this morning, I could have prepared to either take the day off or even planned ahead to come in late. Yeah, I guess I could have called in this morning, but I don't like to do that...lol!
Joe: Believe it or not, I have been working quite a bit on visualizing what conditions I want in my images. Yeah, it may not show completely in my work, but I am working on it, LOL! It’s just that I am missing it when trying to judge the weather conditions for my vision. I love light, and that’s what I try to use to sculpt my surroundings and subject. Yes, low light can be dramatic and beautiful. But, those really neat red clouds in the morning are much more dramatic than a plain empty blue sky. That’s what I am trying to figure out how to guess when I can expect those conditions. Last Saturday morning, with the sun coming up, there were tons of grey clouds in the sky, but not that dramatic red I have seen on other days. Wouldn't you know it, there were so many clouds in the sky, that all of my images came out flat with no directional lighting...even though, the sun was behind and slightly to the right of my subject. When you have backlighting, you can expose completely for the sky, but everything else will result in being silhouetted. Conversely, if I expose just for the subject, then the sky will be very bright, and the subject can take on a luminescent appearance. Since I was exposing for the subject, I figured I would get that luminescent appearance, but nope. I am attributing this to the fact that the sun was so diffused by all the cloud cover.
Howard-yep, that’s exactly what I am looking for. While I don’t want to be a weather forecaster, I suppose I will need some of the training in order to determine when I can expect those weather phenomena. Do you have a suggestion on a good book to read up on that? Maybe a Photographers guide to weather? LOL
I appreciate everyone’s suggestions. It’s never a bad thing to be reminded of the basics, especially for me when I have a really hard time remembering everything! Dang details! Oh, and sorry for rambling! You guys inspire me, and I will continue shooting and practicing!
I've actually suggested to some of my qualified friends that they should consider writing such an (e)book, as I'm sure a lot of people would buy it!
Knowing your local area and a little about meteorology makes a big difference, as does learning how to use some of the more advanced features that sites like NOAA.gov offer.
To answer your question - what you're probably looking for is ground fog (as opposed to marine fog). For ground fog you want to look for times when the dew point and ambient temperature come very close to each other. NOAA.gov provides that info on their site, just go to the appropriate forecast zone, and then click 'hourly weather graph' down in the bottom right. The first chart is temperature and dew point, so just watch for when they come close together! You'll often get that the morning after a good rain storm, especially if it clears out overnight.
Thank you, Floris! Very good info, was really needing that little bit. I've taken a look and have already determined my best chances for fog! Really appreciate those tips!
Posted by Bruce King on November 2, 2011 at 7:46 PM
I know that some landscape photogs use smart phone apps to monitor real time weather and conditions. But regarding being in the right place at the right time check out John Williams recent post in the landscape gallery. He blended several images taken at different times to get the image he wanted. His comments on the image give excellent insight regarding technique.
I spend as much as 5 months a year traveling and "photographing" Marie. I qualify that, because I don't spend the whole time with a camera to my face. A lot of it is standby time, waiting for conditions that are right for me. I'll drop whatever I'm doing and head out with the camera the moment I can anticipate those conditions. Here are the keys:
Weather forecasts over a broad area: And the gasoline budget to go with them, of course. I get my favorite results in front of or behind storms, either as the clouds are forming or as they are dissipating. I hate bald skies, so that affects my choice. Small storms that are violent and fast moving are best in terms of my productivity. Best example is a storm I saw approaching Death Valley, and in fact it came and went in about 4 hours. I drove 8 hours to get there, then got great shots in front and behind, then drove the four hours to Zion and did the same thing again with the same storm the next morning. Then I followed in its wake and got more great shots as it cleared at Bryce.
Familiar Locations: There's no substitute for really knowing an area, in terms of anticipating where to be and when.
Sunrise/Sunset, Moonrise/Moonset. It really helps to know when and where these occur, as well as direction relative to particular landmarks. There are all sorts of charts and aps and websites for this, but none are as useful as a handheld GPS and its onboard functions and built-in compass.
Prior Scouting: Especially with the handheld GPS along. I'll usually spend the day looking for my evening shoot and my shoot for the next morning, maybe shooting as I go and maybe not, depending on the conditions. But I usually know where I'll be come evening and again in the morning.
That's all based on finding what I want. You of course will develop a taste or a style for photos that will direct your own application of those things.
Posted by Marie Mitchell on November 4, 2011 at 10:54 AM
Bruce and Hank,
Thank you very much for this insightful information. I will be carrying this with me in my field notebook.
I don't know where you are, but it doesn't really matter. The further north (or south below the equator), the more the location and angle of the sun and moon change with the season, along with the vegetation. Timing of your visit can have a dramatic affect, and usually a location is better in one season or another. If your "lessons" from prior visits are in your notebook, it's a lot easier to plan those in the future.
Marie,
I use AccuWeather.com it gives hour by hour conditions for your chosen area,as well as a chart giving the likelyhood of fog,
rain, high wind and other weather events.
Gerald.
Posted by Marie Mitchell on November 9, 2011 at 10:04 AM
Thanks, Gerald! I'll have to check that one out too. Am almost tempted to get me one of those tablets so I can have a larger screen to have a larger view of the weather pages and maybe get my note book put in electronic format instead of paper/pen. Think I'd like something that was about 4 or 5 inches wide. That would work! I also have certain apps on my droid to help with golden hours and sun position, so having that all on a tablet might be worth the expense. Does anyone take an electronic tablet with them when they go out on a shoot?
I recently worked with another pro who uses an iPad for everything but brewing coffee, and I'm sold. Manomanomanoman, did that thing ever do a nice job, both in the field and back in town. Worth every cent.
Posted by Marie Mitchell on November 9, 2011 at 10:32 AM
Wow, Hank! I almost spit myyyy coffee out when I read that! Good thing I gave it up-does horrible things to me.
She used the iPad for all sorts of aps and field notes, then used it to access email and browse back in town. It's closer to an all-in-one device than anything I've seen. No other tablet or smart phone can come close, according to her. And seeing was believing!
Discussion
15 repliesI believe that one of the differences between a Pro photographer and a hobby photographer is, knowing when conditions are right for the vision of your image. Yeah, I know there are hobbiests that know how to read and anticipate conditions, but as a Pro, this is kind of expected. Maybe thats why some folks spend days out at the same spot waiting for just the right conditions. Well I would love to be able to do that, but just cannot yet. So, I'd like to learn how to best guess when conditions are where I need them to be. I have no issues with conditions like temp, sun rise/set..but how about fog, a beautiful cloud and color-filled sky in the morning or evening for that matter? I'm sure there are other weather phenomena that I'm just not thinking of right now. Does anyone know of a good book that will teach me how to read weather conditions for anticipating those things? Would greatly appreciate any info you could provide.
Thanks!
Marie
I'm sorry to be the first to disagree with your premise that only pro photographers know when the conditions are right "for the vision of your image." IMHO, the only difference really is the ability to market oneself and have a keen business mind. There are gobs of "hobbyists" who do very well with vision, understanding light (and conditions) and in general create wonderful art. Don't get me wrong, that's not to say that the pro does not have these qualities, the most often do, but their talents also extent to marketing and technically they're a professional because they derive most of not all their income from photography.
"Maybe thats why some folks spend days out at the same spot waiting for just the right conditions"
Yes, many people do spend days or even weeks attempting to capture the perfect conditions. And someone who is a professional, well, it's really their day job so that's what they do. It doesn't mean the hobbyist or anyone else couldn't recognize or take advantage of the conditions give all that time in the field.
Having said that, I hope I can still offer some advice. Personally, it's really less about guessing or knowing what the conditions will or might be. It's more about being able to handle those conditions when the arise. In other words, knowing when and how to select an aperture for depth of field, shutter speeds to create or freeze motion and exposures for handling dynamic light. The more proficient you are with your equipment, the more second nature it becomes and you can concentrate on your vision and creating photographs rather than just taking them.
Understanding conditions though is really about knowing a place. Being familiar and intimate with a location allows you to be much more successful in predicting and understanding weather patterns, light patterns, etc. Then you're able to put yourself in position to take advantage of those conditions because of your familiarity with the place.
Hope this helps. And it's a very good topic, I hope to hear others chime in.
Lon
I'm new here, but it seems that you are approaching this from the wrong direction. Visualizing comes, I think, from experience. The best way to understand and use lighting conditions is to get out into it and look around. See what it is that interests or excites you. Shoot it. Then check over what you get and learn from what didn't work. I would guess that you are over-intellectualizing this. "Look at the light," is advice I used to give. "See what it is doing." Light can be hard. Light can be soft. Side light has a different effect from back light. And front light should, for the most part, be avoided. Noon-hour light shines straight down and creates ugly shadows. Low-angle light, such as sunrise or sunset, can be dramatic and beautiful -- especilly when it warms up. So, get out there, Marie, and observe and shoot and shoot and observe some more. One little hint: vegetation, as a rule, is most beautiful (my opinion) the closer it is to the sun. Of course, you have lens-flare issues to deal with, but that adds to the challenge. Light is your medium, Look at it and see what it does. best wishes, joe holly
Lon: I didn't say that only pro photographers know when conditions are right. "I know there are hobbyists that know how to read and anticipate conditions, but as a Pro, this is kind of expected." Yep, I can handle the conditions (well some of them anyway), if I could just guess, or have a pretty good judge of what the conditions would be. Specifically, I have a place in mind that would look super cool with fog. I am also pretty much limited to shooting on weekend mornings. There was no fog this weekend (or very little) so I could not capture my vision for the image. Now, comes this morning, on a day that I have to work...tons of fog! Now, if I could have predicted, or even guestimated that there would have been fog this morning, I could have prepared to either take the day off or even planned ahead to come in late. Yeah, I guess I could have called in this morning, but I don't like to do that...lol!
Joe: Believe it or not, I have been working quite a bit on visualizing what conditions I want in my images. Yeah, it may not show completely in my work, but I am working on it, LOL! It’s just that I am missing it when trying to judge the weather conditions for my vision. I love light, and that’s what I try to use to sculpt my surroundings and subject. Yes, low light can be dramatic and beautiful. But, those really neat red clouds in the morning are much more dramatic than a plain empty blue sky. That’s what I am trying to figure out how to guess when I can expect those conditions. Last Saturday morning, with the sun coming up, there were tons of grey clouds in the sky, but not that dramatic red I have seen on other days. Wouldn't you know it, there were so many clouds in the sky, that all of my images came out flat with no directional lighting...even though, the sun was behind and slightly to the right of my subject. When you have backlighting, you can expose completely for the sky, but everything else will result in being silhouetted. Conversely, if I expose just for the subject, then the sky will be very bright, and the subject can take on a luminescent appearance. Since I was exposing for the subject, I figured I would get that luminescent appearance, but nope. I am attributing this to the fact that the sun was so diffused by all the cloud cover.
Howard-yep, that’s exactly what I am looking for. While I don’t want to be a weather forecaster, I suppose I will need some of the training in order to determine when I can expect those weather phenomena. Do you have a suggestion on a good book to read up on that? Maybe a Photographers guide to weather? LOL
I appreciate everyone’s suggestions. It’s never a bad thing to be reminded of the basics, especially for me when I have a really hard time remembering everything! Dang details! Oh, and sorry for rambling! You guys inspire me, and I will continue shooting and practicing!
Knowing your local area and a little about meteorology makes a big difference, as does learning how to use some of the more advanced features that sites like NOAA.gov offer.
To answer your question - what you're probably looking for is ground fog (as opposed to marine fog). For ground fog you want to look for times when the dew point and ambient temperature come very close to each other. NOAA.gov provides that info on their site, just go to the appropriate forecast zone, and then click 'hourly weather graph' down in the bottom right. The first chart is temperature and dew point, so just watch for when they come close together! You'll often get that the morning after a good rain storm, especially if it clears out overnight.
Weather forecasts over a broad area: And the gasoline budget to go with them, of course. I get my favorite results in front of or behind storms, either as the clouds are forming or as they are dissipating. I hate bald skies, so that affects my choice. Small storms that are violent and fast moving are best in terms of my productivity. Best example is a storm I saw approaching Death Valley, and in fact it came and went in about 4 hours. I drove 8 hours to get there, then got great shots in front and behind, then drove the four hours to Zion and did the same thing again with the same storm the next morning. Then I followed in its wake and got more great shots as it cleared at Bryce.
Familiar Locations: There's no substitute for really knowing an area, in terms of anticipating where to be and when.
Sunrise/Sunset, Moonrise/Moonset. It really helps to know when and where these occur, as well as direction relative to particular landmarks. There are all sorts of charts and aps and websites for this, but none are as useful as a handheld GPS and its onboard functions and built-in compass.
Prior Scouting: Especially with the handheld GPS along. I'll usually spend the day looking for my evening shoot and my shoot for the next morning, maybe shooting as I go and maybe not, depending on the conditions. But I usually know where I'll be come evening and again in the morning.
That's all based on finding what I want. You of course will develop a taste or a style for photos that will direct your own application of those things.
Thank you very much for this insightful information. I will be carrying this with me in my field notebook.
There's another key!
I don't know where you are, but it doesn't really matter. The further north (or south below the equator), the more the location and angle of the sun and moon change with the season, along with the vegetation. Timing of your visit can have a dramatic affect, and usually a location is better in one season or another. If your "lessons" from prior visits are in your notebook, it's a lot easier to plan those in the future.
I use AccuWeather.com it gives hour by hour conditions for your chosen area,as well as a chart giving the likelyhood of fog,
rain, high wind and other weather events.
Gerald.
She used the iPad for all sorts of aps and field notes, then used it to access email and browse back in town. It's closer to an all-in-one device than anything I've seen. No other tablet or smart phone can come close, according to her. And seeing was believing!