Posted by Lon Overacker on September 21, 2011 at 7:35 PM
Well, Charlies been getting his little digs in here and there, the most recent comment posted on PA: "I did think of posting it to landscape cause over there they seem to know where everything belongs and what they want (or not)." Trying not to take it personally, but he's rubbing on me.
But that's NOT the reason for this post as he has raised a question/request regarding weekly picks. It's not a new topic, but one I suspect will gather some steam judging by a couple comments already so far.
I thought I would open this up to the group for discussion. I know for a very short period of time we tried in Landscape/ESS to post a note in the Landscape discussion forum about the weekly pick, which included a brief mention of other images that were considered. This obviously didn't last too long. I know other mods make some comments, but honestly I don't follow all the other discussion forums and so I'm not sure how everyone else handles this.
Conceptually I think it's a positive idea to add a couple sentences after the announcement - or perhaps being included in Donna's weekly announcement (idea?) Practically though, I don't suspect we could get full participation from everyone. We're either all very busy, off on long photo excursions or simply feel enough volunteer time is already given. I'm sure a wide variety of reasons.
My other thought is just this. It's an "editor's" pick. that means my pick will be different than Marc's and his different from Floris, etc. It's not a point system where you get 10 pts for composition, 10 pts for technical excellence and 10 pts for public voting... this isn't dancing with the stars. So, that means the very second an "opinion" is offered up about a particular pick, then that just invites the questioning of one pick over another - (round up the usual suspects.)
I'll stop for now and see if anyone else wants to chime in.
Lon
Posted by Keith Bauer on September 21, 2011 at 8:09 PM
Hey Lon.... Glad you posted this. I too have seen a couple of Charlie's latest digs. I think it's about time for some clear communication to Charlie to stop the childish digs. There's no value added from his snotty little statement "I did think of posting it to landscape cause over there they seem to know where everything belongs and what they want (or not)."
Now on to this topic. Nate and I alternate the picks in Avian. Generally we'll send 2 or 3 selections to Jim / Donna each week. Sometimes with a clear preference, sometimes with no clear choice. Writing up a sentence or two on each would become a pretty big task to tackle each week. From the posting guidelines:
Role of Moderators
The primary role of moderators is to oversee forum activity to ensure smooth operation. They enforce the NPN Posting Guidelines and answer member questions on the use of the forums. Though they often post comments on member photos, they are not required to provide expert critique on every photo posted.
Going down the path Charlie suggests might add some nice value, but I don't believe it is sustainable or reasonable to ask for each week.
Maybe if we didn't have to spend the time dealing with the Charlie's of the site, we'd have more time to provide critiques
Posted by Lon Overacker on September 21, 2011 at 8:37 PM
Maybe if we didn't have to spend the time dealing with the Charlie's of the site, we'd have more time to provide critiques
Ditto, +1, etc.
I may or may not post something to that thread, but I already have a target on my back from earlier Landscape and M&N confrontations.
I'd like to suggest that anyone is free to start their own thread discussing the virtues of the weekly pick. Folks could join in and offer what their pick would have been and why the pick wasn't deserved, etc. Knock yourself out.
Charlie's just looking for ways to feel significant in the world, and he gets his jollies by making people react to his agenda. Any agenda, as long as it's his. I ignore him and refuse to give him a reaction, and he goes looking for a rise out of someone else.
As for comments on the choices, I have very light duty compared to other galleries, but wouldn't care to enter discussion to defend or justify my choices. I'm providing critiques for each of the few photos posted, and folks can find the background for my choices right there. I think an ongoing platform for discussing WP choices would be a 4-star invitation to the Charlies of the world. I would really dislike the conversations that resulted when egos were at stake.
Posted by Lon Overacker on September 22, 2011 at 2:36 PM
Totally agree Hank, thanks.
"...but wouldn't care to enter discussion to defend or justify my choices. " Especially here. How often have we entered a photo contest, juried selection, etc. Ever try to find the judge and question them about their choices? I know people that have of course, and those are the Charlies of the world. It's a frickin' opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
I've come to figure out too that there are many on these forum who are driven to win a weekly pick and they can't understand why they've never been picked.
Lon
Posted by Eva McDermott on September 23, 2011 at 1:10 AM
I agree with Hank that the best thing is to ignor Charlie and don't give him the satisfaction. After his last stunt with ESS and M&N debate I made the mistake of responding to one of his off track comments which opened a whole other can of worms.
Selection of the a WP by me not only considers the technical attributes of an image, but also the emotional impact it has on me personally. How do you describe that to a tank of angry sharks or in this case angry shark.
Posted by Jim Erhardt on September 23, 2011 at 6:10 AM
I agree, posting the reasons why a photo was selected is useful information, but it (1) takes time to do and (2) opens up the decision to debate.
I will begin tracking all of Mr. Baugh's comments again as he may not be the only one using his account.
I was starting to wonder. I've been an editor for over 30 years and noted a pattern in his recent posts. Charlie tends to be verbose and tries to be "cute" in most that he writes. This round of offensive comments are mostly very short and acidic. I assumed he was learning how to self-edit, but ghost writing makes more sense.
Ah I forget to check into this forum regularly.. anyhow, I agree with all the comments posted. Consider that even for big competitions with huge cash prizes the judges don't really tell you why or why not certain images were chosen. Occasionally there may be a short sentence, but it never actually tells you anything useful. The bottom line is, the judges choose the image they like best.
A more useful idea is to foster discussion among the members, though that could get ugly quickly too.
Posted by Bill Fach on October 14, 2011 at 9:02 PM
I'm really late to this party but thought I would toss in my 2 cents. For quite a while I did provide a summary of the week in Flora that was in fact well received. It just got to be a bit too much. I made the conscious decision to comment on every Flora post and felt that was a more appropriate use of my time. Usually my comments on the winning post are sufficient to explain my choice. Perhaps a comment by the responsible mod once the pick is published would help folks understand the thought processes that went into the selection.
Discussion
9 repliesBut that's NOT the reason for this post as he has raised a question/request regarding weekly picks. It's not a new topic, but one I suspect will gather some steam judging by a couple comments already so far.
I thought I would open this up to the group for discussion. I know for a very short period of time we tried in Landscape/ESS to post a note in the Landscape discussion forum about the weekly pick, which included a brief mention of other images that were considered. This obviously didn't last too long. I know other mods make some comments, but honestly I don't follow all the other discussion forums and so I'm not sure how everyone else handles this.
Conceptually I think it's a positive idea to add a couple sentences after the announcement - or perhaps being included in Donna's weekly announcement (idea?) Practically though, I don't suspect we could get full participation from everyone. We're either all very busy, off on long photo excursions or simply feel enough volunteer time is already given. I'm sure a wide variety of reasons.
My other thought is just this. It's an "editor's" pick. that means my pick will be different than Marc's and his different from Floris, etc. It's not a point system where you get 10 pts for composition, 10 pts for technical excellence and 10 pts for public voting... this isn't dancing with the stars. So, that means the very second an "opinion" is offered up about a particular pick, then that just invites the questioning of one pick over another - (round up the usual suspects.)
I'll stop for now and see if anyone else wants to chime in.
Lon
Now on to this topic. Nate and I alternate the picks in Avian. Generally we'll send 2 or 3 selections to Jim / Donna each week. Sometimes with a clear preference, sometimes with no clear choice. Writing up a sentence or two on each would become a pretty big task to tackle each week. From the posting guidelines:
Role of Moderators
The primary role of moderators is to oversee forum activity to ensure smooth operation. They enforce the NPN Posting Guidelines and answer member questions on the use of the forums. Though they often post comments on member photos, they are not required to provide expert critique on every photo posted.
Going down the path Charlie suggests might add some nice value, but I don't believe it is sustainable or reasonable to ask for each week.
Maybe if we didn't have to spend the time dealing with the Charlie's of the site, we'd have more time to provide critiques
Ditto, +1, etc.
I may or may not post something to that thread, but I already have a target on my back from earlier Landscape and M&N confrontations.
I'd like to suggest that anyone is free to start their own thread discussing the virtues of the weekly pick. Folks could join in and offer what their pick would have been and why the pick wasn't deserved, etc. Knock yourself out.
But I won't.
As for comments on the choices, I have very light duty compared to other galleries, but wouldn't care to enter discussion to defend or justify my choices. I'm providing critiques for each of the few photos posted, and folks can find the background for my choices right there. I think an ongoing platform for discussing WP choices would be a 4-star invitation to the Charlies of the world. I would really dislike the conversations that resulted when egos were at stake.
"...but wouldn't care to enter discussion to defend or justify my choices. " Especially here. How often have we entered a photo contest, juried selection, etc. Ever try to find the judge and question them about their choices? I know people that have of course, and those are the Charlies of the world. It's a frickin' opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
I've come to figure out too that there are many on these forum who are driven to win a weekly pick and they can't understand why they've never been picked.
Lon
Selection of the a WP by me not only considers the technical attributes of an image, but also the emotional impact it has on me personally. How do you describe that to a tank of angry sharks or in this case angry shark.
I will begin tracking all of Mr. Baugh's comments again as he may not be the only one using his account.
A more useful idea is to foster discussion among the members, though that could get ugly quickly too.