Posted by Greg Lessard on September 5, 2011 at 8:45 PM
Hi Everyone,
I have been approached by a self publishing author, who would like to use one of my images as the cover of his first novel. He intends to run 400 copies to sell at fairs near his house.
I have consulted photographersindex.com to get a ball park figure for pricing. The closest they come is "editorial books consumer/trade under 10,000 copies" for $650. Under 10,000 copies is a lot of variability, particularly when the print run will be only 400. I am inclined to charge $300-$400 dollars for a one time use, with a photo credit and request a copy of the book. I hate to ask this, but am I overcharging?
Thanks,
Greg
Posted by David Frye on September 6, 2011 at 7:31 AM
I don't know if this helps with your decision, but if you look at the offer from the author's perspective, he will want to cover his cost of production. Let's say he will sell his book for $10 a copy. If you charge $400, then he has ten percent of his cover price wrapped up in the cover image. A quick Google search turns up information like this (http://www.millcitypress.net/book-printing-costs.aspx) that shows the direct printing cost runs about $4/book. If the author chooses a printer like the one in this link, and can get the books printed at that rate, then your photograph's price is reasonable.
I suppose from your side, one of the questions is whether your image's appearance on the book detracts from its marketability in other media and venues. If it does, then your charge needs to reflect that depletion of its future potential for sales. If it doesn't, then perhaps the figure you've mentioned is reasonable.
Just some early-morning, post-coffee thoughts. A great question!
The only self-publishers I have worked with were putting out CD's and DVD's, but the print runs were similar and prices were in the $10-$15 range. I agree with David, that you'll kill the deal at $300-$400.
In my case I've been acquainted with the "authors" and more inclined to forge a long term relationship with them. I wrote really strong contract terms with a small payment to me for the first run, but a jump in fees for subsequent runs. They've been comfortable with my assumption that the first printing is a leap of faith which I want to endorse, but that I should be in a position for larger income if they are successful and have to do more and larger runs. My flat fee for the first run of 500 or less has been 20 cents per copy, but with the provision that I'll get twice that or 40 cents on subsequent printing. They've been happy, but we've all been waiting years for subsequent print runs when we'll all strike it rich.
Posted by Max Waugh on September 6, 2011 at 12:45 PM
I think your fee is fair, but I agree with Hank that it will kill the deal. I have yet to run into a self-published author who has been willing to spend that kind of money on image licensing.
Max
Posted by Luke Ormand on September 6, 2011 at 3:09 PM
Hank's advice is worth a lot. I've had a little experience with this and in one case (where the book was being put out by an actual publisher) they didn't even want to pay me for a cover shot. Another instance was someone who wanted to use my image in his book that he was self publishing. I think I quoted $50 and he never replied. Since it's a small run I'd go with the $10-$20 range and ramp it up for subsequent runs, unless of course the image would suffer in future sales.
Posted by Greg Lessard on September 6, 2011 at 6:17 PM
Thank you everyone! That's rather depressing, but I had a feeling that $1 a copy would be too much. I appreciate your help!
Sincerely,
Greg
So are the prospects for making money through self-publishing!
That's why I took the path I did, working "with" the prospective author. I don't want to be yet another barricade to their success, but at the same time I want to be on hand if their venture is successful.
Posted by Brian Gatlin on September 6, 2011 at 10:01 PM
Greg, keep in mind that the presses that print out these "self-published" books are called vanity presses for a reason. The person putting out the book probably has a realistic sense that they are not going to make money off the project and may be willing to pay more than makes economic sense to have the book look the way they want. I wouldn't be afraid to start high.
An important set of #'s is hidden in my quotes, the details of which can be lost in all the "big" numbers being bandied around here.
At $650 for 10,000 copies, your talking 6.5 cents per copy for your photo. A pay rate of "only" 20 cents for 400 copies ($80) translates into $2,000 on a print run of 10k. A pay rate of 40 cents translates into $4k for a print run of 10k.
Yeah, I'm only getting $80 for a print run of 400. Disappointing till you read between the lines and consider the ramifications for a large print run if the author hits it big. Our bets are covered either way with more income on the short run and a fat contract for the big run.
Posted by Greg Lessard on October 4, 2011 at 7:49 PM
I decided to use Hank's pricing model. The author took the $80 price without hesitation. You can look it at two ways:
1. I made the sale and my image will be on a book cover.
2. The price may have been too low.
Personally, I am choosing option 1.
Thank you for everyone's time and consideration!
Discussion
10 repliesI have been approached by a self publishing author, who would like to use one of my images as the cover of his first novel. He intends to run 400 copies to sell at fairs near his house.
I have consulted photographersindex.com to get a ball park figure for pricing. The closest they come is "editorial books consumer/trade under 10,000 copies" for $650. Under 10,000 copies is a lot of variability, particularly when the print run will be only 400. I am inclined to charge $300-$400 dollars for a one time use, with a photo credit and request a copy of the book. I hate to ask this, but am I overcharging?
Thanks,
Greg
I suppose from your side, one of the questions is whether your image's appearance on the book detracts from its marketability in other media and venues. If it does, then your charge needs to reflect that depletion of its future potential for sales. If it doesn't, then perhaps the figure you've mentioned is reasonable.
Just some early-morning, post-coffee thoughts. A great question!
In my case I've been acquainted with the "authors" and more inclined to forge a long term relationship with them. I wrote really strong contract terms with a small payment to me for the first run, but a jump in fees for subsequent runs. They've been comfortable with my assumption that the first printing is a leap of faith which I want to endorse, but that I should be in a position for larger income if they are successful and have to do more and larger runs. My flat fee for the first run of 500 or less has been 20 cents per copy, but with the provision that I'll get twice that or 40 cents on subsequent printing. They've been happy, but we've all been waiting years for subsequent print runs when we'll all strike it rich.
Max
Sincerely,
Greg
So are the prospects for making money through self-publishing!
That's why I took the path I did, working "with" the prospective author. I don't want to be yet another barricade to their success, but at the same time I want to be on hand if their venture is successful.
At $650 for 10,000 copies, your talking 6.5 cents per copy for your photo. A pay rate of "only" 20 cents for 400 copies ($80) translates into $2,000 on a print run of 10k. A pay rate of 40 cents translates into $4k for a print run of 10k.
Yeah, I'm only getting $80 for a print run of 400. Disappointing till you read between the lines and consider the ramifications for a large print run if the author hits it big. Our bets are covered either way with more income on the short run and a fat contract for the big run.
1. I made the sale and my image will be on a book cover.
2. The price may have been too low.
Personally, I am choosing option 1.
Thank you for everyone's time and consideration!