I just want to put out a heads up, especially for the Landscape Gallery. Yesterday i received an insulting email (sent via my website contact form, so i cant readily trace the IP) that claimed to be from Royce Howland, who is a moderator at naturescapes.net. I contacted Royce and im convinced he was not the emailer, I think its the same person who wrote me a similar mail a couple months back claiming to be "James Gardiner" or "Gardinner". Similar words were used. Both emails came just after I made some fairly critical comments on one of James Fougere's posts in the Gallery. Fougere is a Canadian photographer who recently joined. So either he has a fan who doesnt appreciate my comments, or he has a split personality... Anyhow, would be curious if anyone has similar experiences. Seems a lot of nutcases are out there lately, I noticed the freak who is attacking Marc A has a new website out too.
Posted by Jim Erhardt on March 14, 2011 at 7:00 AM
Stan, thanks for the heads up. I looked at the thread in question and I think you did a good job with the critique.
I'm not sure what is going on lately, but a few people have become truly unwrapped. After "getting into it" with Sandy Richards a few months ago (and trying to drag me into their dispute), Cindy Mead copied me on an email she sent to Richard Ditch which was an outright personal attack on him. She sent this one at the same time;
"I would like every single photo that is still in my gallery removed from NPN. Please also remove any links to work of mine that have been posted there.
"I hope this will be done in a very timely manner. I no longer wish to be associated with NPN in ANY way. At one time it was an honor- it is now an embarassment."
As you may know, Cindy has been battling some health issues for years. Recently, I have noticed her becoming more combative. In the past, I have ignored at least a few other requests like this one figuring that she was having a bad day, but this time I obliged her. So, her account has been removed from NPN along with all of her posts. I truly feel bad for her but I thought it was in the best interest of all that I take her up on the request this time.
In some cases it's personal health, in other cases it may being trying financial times. But I too have seen an uptick in this kind of behavior, and not just on NPN. It is unsettling...
That's truly sad, Jim. Cindy once got mad at me in an email, but after i clarified the post that upset her she was very cordial and ive had some e-conversations with her that were totally pleasant. I did get the impression that she is under a great deal of stress which i imagine isnt helping her health issues either. I know that people who are suffering inside sometimes take it out on the rest of the world in anger. Its really too bad cause Cindy is enormously talented, gifted really. Hopefully she'll find some peace. I think you're right, the economy definitely has an impact, plus the constant barrage of bad news it seems we have.
I haven't spoken with Cindy in some time, but I do know her situation is not good. I agree with Steve that it can be tough to find a way through the world. That said, I think the old axiom 'If you don't have something nice to say, don't say it.' should apply, especially for those who are management capacity.
Stan, regarding the hate mail, am sorry to hear this. I would bet a dollar to a donut that if the conversation occurred in person the words and tone would be very different. It's very easy to write a poorly worded e-mail and pull the trigger without really thinking of how something written will come off. Was this just a rant, Stan, or a personal attack?
I agree with the comments that the world has become very unsettled, and folks are edgy. To my mind, though, all it takes is giving a little forethought to what we do and say out of respect for others, and for ourselves.
Sometimes I wish the NPN code of conduct applied to e-mails, too.
Steve, I think Jim would have chime in on this, but it seems to me that since the e-mail is generated by NPN by an NPN member, it would fall under the Code of Conduct.
--P
Posted by Lon Overacker on March 14, 2011 at 4:56 PM
Sorry to hear about Cindy as well. I know she was a long time member and of course gone through a lot. You know, we're all different with different experiences and outlooks. I'd like to think that more could be like Wayne Jones.... so glad it sounds like he is in recovery.... anyway..
Stan, just to clarify relating to Preston's comments, the email(s) you've received were from your own websites contact form, OR from an NPN form email? Big difference. If NPN, most definitely falls in to NPN code of conduct. If through your personal website, a little more sleuthing might have to happen.
Other than the timing, is there anything else that makes you think it's this person? It's just too bad that some folks just can't handle constructive criticism. I reviewed the guy's posts and I didn't really see/read anything that even hinted at a conflict with any of your comments on his image.
I certainly hope this doesn't continue. I've only had a run-in with one member, who is now no longer a member. Some people just can't communicate very well and as it happens so often, those who do communicate think that because they're behind this veil of anonymity they can really get nasty.
Lon
Posted by Eva McDermott on March 14, 2011 at 7:22 PM
The fact that this person is trying to fake their identity is bothersome. I do believe it is the same person in both instances Stan. Is the photographer whose images sparked these e-mails aware of the situation? What comes to mind: 1st scenario - Maybe he (the photographer) has a clue of a "groupie" who has done this before. It is hard to believe the photographer himself is doing this based on his public response to both posts in question. 2nd scenario - He has started a new business and maybe does not want bad press.... but then why broadcast that this was his first try at PS and he was looking for input from the group? It does not make sense unless dealing with a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
Both Marc Adamus and Adam Gibbs have been on photo safaris with James as mentioned in James's posts. Maybe Marc can shed some light on the situation especially since he has been a victim himself to various hate websites. James is also working on his technique with Zack Schnepf another respectable NPN'er. Adam G. and Zack S. are not part of this private forum so it may not be appropriate to ask them.
Stan - Additional info: I went onto my website to see how they handle e-mail replies from my site. When I hit reply the e-mail of the sender comes up. It is not visible until I do that. I am not saying to reply, but it may be a way to see who the real sender is..... but maybe you have done this already.
I am sorry to hear about your trouble Stan. I would just like to share a bit of my story concerning Cindy Mead because she has been brought up in this thread. First off I really like Cindy Mead and her work and I have been associated with her for years but have always had a good relationship with her. As Jim knows I have had a lot of trouble with Cindy and with Fabs Forns in the past year. I think that they are both talented and gifted photographers and photo artists.It just really seemed like something snapped inside of Cindy last year. I believe that Cindy was really working hard to get Fabs upset and Fabs many times emailed me about resigning from NPN and I encouraged her to hang in with NPN and she did.Sometimes I wonder if Cindy is working in the background to egg people on and cause trouble even now. I have been friends with her on Facebook for awhile and around Christmas time she removed me as a friend because she said I wasn't commenting on her images in Flickr. I didn't bother to really respond to her about it because at that time my mother was dying in the hospital and has since passed away. The other reason I didn't respond was because I did not want to feed this obsession that she had with NPN. About 1 month ago she added me back as her friend on Facebook. I really believe Fabs would still be with us if it wasn't for Cindy. Cindy is very convincing. She also had a big problem with Sandy Richards and was always complaining to me about her not telling the truth about her images. I have been caring this with me for awhile and I am glad that Jim mentioned Cindy and Sandy and I felt this was a good opportunity to get this off of my chest.
Posted by Eva McDermott on March 14, 2011 at 8:31 PM
I knew of Sandy's problems with Cindy as far back as early October when Sandy traveled with me to Nova Scotia. Sandy's issue with Cindy was then related to an issue with one of Sandy's images that was selected by NANPA for some contest/showcase. Cindy was contesting with NANPA why Sandy's image was selected since it was certainly a composite. NANPA verified Sandy's image as real when she submitted the RAW file to NANPA. I do not know Cindy since I do not participate the forums she used to and I am not a member of NANPA.
Back in early January, Sandy was having an issue with Cindy again. This time leaving nasty grams in Sandy's guest book on her new website on Zenfolio and sending her e-mails as well. I mentioned to Sandy how to disable/delete comments on Zenfolio since that is where I have my website. Again I do not know Cindy and sympathize with her health issues but these issues should not be allowed to be disruptive to others.
Edit: Checked my emails to to be sure I was accurate in my account of Sandy's issue. Fabiola as well was also involved with the NANPA dispute on Sandy's work to try and discredit it. I just wanted to make sure the info I posted here was accurate (not taking sides).
Posted by Keith Bauer on March 14, 2011 at 11:31 PM
I really believe Fabs would still be with us if it wasn't for Cindy. Cindy is very convincing.
I don't know all of the background with Fabs and Cindy, but I fully believe Fabs (and Al) would still be gone without Cindy. I won't go into all of the details here, but Al and Fabs have been removed (willingly or not) from a lot more photographic sites than NPN. There are some people who simply can not accept any critique or comments that aren't the "fabulous image" without becoming extremely defensive. I applaud Jim for removing them.
I applaud Jim as well. I know Fabs was very volatile but with some communication I believe she could be tamed down. In the end she was out of control but I do believe Cindy's manipulation had a lot to do with it. She threatened to leave NPN twice but I helped convince her to stay not really knowing her background with the other sites. I am so glad that Jim put this forum together so we can discuss these problems and fix situations before they blow up.
Thanks for the reponses. To clarify, I am not accusing Fougere--it seems highly unlikely he is the emailer, but im pretty sure the personal attacks were a result of my comments in the Gallery since the first and second email had similar stylistic traits and the first one explicitly refferred to one of his posts. Unfortunately, since it come from my own websites contact form, i dont know of any easy way to trace it. Ill just keep on gaurd for more of the same...
WRT Cindy, I sent her a quick note simply wishing her well, and got back a lengthy response (which i obviously cant share verbatum) but the gist of it was that the 'hypocrisy' and 'lies', emanating mainly from "mean spirited" Ditch and Sandy R, drove her out, and that NPN was a "sinking ship".
Sandy tried to pull me into the fight with Cindy too a couple months back. I told her she should talk it out with Cindy.
I do feel somewhat uncomfortable about bringing up these things 'behind folks' backs', but I agree that these personal disputes are a sign of 'growing pains' and I agree strongly with David that by discussing these problems, we are better prepared to deal with them and hopefully keep the ship sailing full steam ahead
Posted by Jim Erhardt on March 15, 2011 at 2:26 PM
Just an an FYI, both the Forns and Cindy departed on their own, requesting their accounts closed and their postings removed. In all cases, I tried to talk them out of it - Cindy at least 2 previous times. This last case with Cindy I simply complied with her request. Just want to be clear that I did not ask any of them to leave.
That said, people with Bad Mojo can pull many others into their black hole of discontent. Sometimes, despite our best efforts and intentions, there's nothing to be done about it.
Posted by Eva McDermott on March 15, 2011 at 8:08 PM
Checked my emails to to be sure I was accurate in my account of Sandy's issue. Fabiola as well was also involved with the NANPA dispute on Sandy's work to try and discredit it. I just wanted to make sure the info I post here is accurate to the best of my knowledge (not taking sides). I am not sure why "Fabs" had a chip on her shoulder but maybe the current outcome is the best thing for NPN.
Discussion
12 repliesI'm not sure what is going on lately, but a few people have become truly unwrapped. After "getting into it" with Sandy Richards a few months ago (and trying to drag me into their dispute), Cindy Mead copied me on an email she sent to Richard Ditch which was an outright personal attack on him. She sent this one at the same time;
"I would like every single photo that is still in my gallery removed from NPN. Please also remove any links to work of mine that have been posted there.
"I hope this will be done in a very timely manner. I no longer wish to be associated with NPN in ANY way. At one time it was an honor- it is now an embarassment."
As you may know, Cindy has been battling some health issues for years. Recently, I have noticed her becoming more combative. In the past, I have ignored at least a few other requests like this one figuring that she was having a bad day, but this time I obliged her. So, her account has been removed from NPN along with all of her posts. I truly feel bad for her but I thought it was in the best interest of all that I take her up on the request this time.
In some cases it's personal health, in other cases it may being trying financial times. But I too have seen an uptick in this kind of behavior, and not just on NPN. It is unsettling...
Stan, regarding the hate mail, am sorry to hear this. I would bet a dollar to a donut that if the conversation occurred in person the words and tone would be very different. It's very easy to write a poorly worded e-mail and pull the trigger without really thinking of how something written will come off. Was this just a rant, Stan, or a personal attack?
I agree with the comments that the world has become very unsettled, and folks are edgy. To my mind, though, all it takes is giving a little forethought to what we do and say out of respect for others, and for ourselves.
Steve, I think Jim would have chime in on this, but it seems to me that since the e-mail is generated by NPN by an NPN member, it would fall under the Code of Conduct.
--P
Stan, just to clarify relating to Preston's comments, the email(s) you've received were from your own websites contact form, OR from an NPN form email? Big difference. If NPN, most definitely falls in to NPN code of conduct. If through your personal website, a little more sleuthing might have to happen.
Other than the timing, is there anything else that makes you think it's this person? It's just too bad that some folks just can't handle constructive criticism. I reviewed the guy's posts and I didn't really see/read anything that even hinted at a conflict with any of your comments on his image.
I certainly hope this doesn't continue. I've only had a run-in with one member, who is now no longer a member. Some people just can't communicate very well and as it happens so often, those who do communicate think that because they're behind this veil of anonymity they can really get nasty.
Lon
Both Marc Adamus and Adam Gibbs have been on photo safaris with James as mentioned in James's posts. Maybe Marc can shed some light on the situation especially since he has been a victim himself to various hate websites. James is also working on his technique with Zack Schnepf another respectable NPN'er. Adam G. and Zack S. are not part of this private forum so it may not be appropriate to ask them.
Stan - Additional info: I went onto my website to see how they handle e-mail replies from my site. When I hit reply the e-mail of the sender comes up. It is not visible until I do that. I am not saying to reply, but it may be a way to see who the real sender is..... but maybe you have done this already.
Back in early January, Sandy was having an issue with Cindy again. This time leaving nasty grams in Sandy's guest book on her new website on Zenfolio and sending her e-mails as well. I mentioned to Sandy how to disable/delete comments on Zenfolio since that is where I have my website. Again I do not know Cindy and sympathize with her health issues but these issues should not be allowed to be disruptive to others.
Edit: Checked my emails to to be sure I was accurate in my account of Sandy's issue. Fabiola as well was also involved with the NANPA dispute on Sandy's work to try and discredit it. I just wanted to make sure the info I posted here was accurate (not taking sides).
I don't know all of the background with Fabs and Cindy, but I fully believe Fabs (and Al) would still be gone without Cindy. I won't go into all of the details here, but Al and Fabs have been removed (willingly or not) from a lot more photographic sites than NPN. There are some people who simply can not accept any critique or comments that aren't the "fabulous image" without becoming extremely defensive. I applaud Jim for removing them.
WRT Cindy, I sent her a quick note simply wishing her well, and got back a lengthy response (which i obviously cant share verbatum) but the gist of it was that the 'hypocrisy' and 'lies', emanating mainly from "mean spirited" Ditch and Sandy R, drove her out, and that NPN was a "sinking ship".
Sandy tried to pull me into the fight with Cindy too a couple months back. I told her she should talk it out with Cindy.
I do feel somewhat uncomfortable about bringing up these things 'behind folks' backs', but I agree that these personal disputes are a sign of 'growing pains' and I agree strongly with David that by discussing these problems, we are better prepared to deal with them and hopefully keep the ship sailing full steam ahead
That said, people with Bad Mojo can pull many others into their black hole of discontent. Sometimes, despite our best efforts and intentions, there's nothing to be done about it.