A few days have passed and I've cooled in my feeling about our parting.
NPN, is your baby and it is certainly a wonderful source of pleasure and education for a great group of people. I sincerely do wish you well and if I may be so bold as to suggest something to you, it would be to use you skills at organization to think deeply as to how you might loosen the reins a little. Enough to allow truely open discussions about things that you may not agree with. The arbitrary deleting of, not nasty or dishonest, postings by members is something that (I believe) will eventually cause greater and continueing problems for you. Of course you should always have that veto power for those instances where severe disruption is caused by a member, BUT, (I believe) some obligation exists in a group of individuals that provide the material (photographs) that has the public appeal that NPN enjoys and profits from, not to mention that those member pay to have their valuable material displayed on NPN.
So Jim I'll be watching and hoping that things become at least a little more open to members feeling free to express their thoughts as to the working of a group they are so vital a part.
Regards,
Charlie Baugh
-----------------------------------
Charlie,
Thanks for taking the time to write. I wish you well too!
My wife Donna really enjoys to cook, especially baking. For the 32 years we have been married, she never fails to come up with some mighty tasty cookies, pies, cakes, etc. (none of which have done my beltline any favors). One of the aspects of her baking is the way she adds ingredients - a little of this, a little of that. It became obvious to me that subtle changes in the kind or amount of ingredients can have a pretty big impact on the outcome. She knows exactly what it is she's trying to make, knows how she has to make it but there always seems to a bit of intuition involved as well.
So it is with a large online community like NPN. We know exactly what it is we wish to accomplish and the "flavor" we need to maintain to cultivate it. Just like the ingredients in one of Donna's pies, there's a certain amount of judgement involved and we have learned over the last 11 years what works and what doesn't.
NPN is without a doubt a place where people make friends and develop an online social network. This is just human nature. But we also must maintain the "ingredients" of participation "just so" otherwise the entire flavor of the experience changes, and not always for the better.
I think the most common theme of interest for 99% of our members is their intense devotion to nature photography. They come as well to escape the everyday trials and tribulations of life, so NPN is also a refuge from all the other "stuff" they have to deal with and be exposed to every day. Nature photography is their escape and NPN is their escape vehicle.
I think to enjoy NPN to it's fullest, you need to be able to focus on the intent of the site to the exclusion of everything else. At the end of the day, most members really don't care how the site is run or want to engage in deep conversation about the merits of site policy. This is nothing more than a distraction to the majority of them.
So it is I have the unenviable task of maintaining the "flavor" of NPN and to watch out for the "ingredients" that could ruin the flavor. Our members take their nature photography very seriously and enjoy the fact that NPN is a place where they can focus on it without distraction. Though not everyone may agree with how we have managed to maintain the flavor of NPN, the vast majority appreciate the fact that we do.
There are countless sites where people can go to make friends, establish an online social network, engage in small talk, find a new girlfriend, talk politics, complain about their job, crack jokes, etc., but these things are simply outside the scope of NPN. This is what makes NPN unique and keeps avid nature photographers coming back.
I hope this makes sense to you and sheds some light on how/why we operate NPN the way we do.
Interesting note from Charlie. I saw his discontent expressed a couple of times, but was not aware that it ended up in his departure (I assume his choice).
Baking is a good analogy Jim, but I doubt he gets it.... And good riddance.
There was a snide edge and general cryptic nature to most of his posts, always stirring for others to commit themselves on his half-baked pronouncements while he refused to elaborate. I won't engage those social "skills" on the street, much less online.
Now, let's talk more about Donna's great baking!
Posted by Jim Erhardt on March 4, 2011 at 10:06 AM
Hank, your point is well taken. From what I heard, Charlie is in his late 70s taking care of his wife, who evidently needs 24/7 attention. I watched this very same scenario kill my own father, so I feel great sympathy for his situation. But at the same time, I can't let that get in the way of making the right call in regards to NPN. BTW, Charlie asked for a refund and departed on his own accord.
I've also heard from Rich Mayer. I will not respond to his antagonistic emails, but suffice to say getting him off NPN was 100% the right call.
Jim, the fact that NPN is what it is, is is proof positive that you are going about things the right way--i certainly couldnt do 1/10th the job you do with this site!
I was a bit surprised and dissapointed to see that Charlie had 'departed'--i liked his style, from what i saw he never crossed the line. (EDIT: see below)
I even was a bit dissapointed to see all of Rich's posts vanish from the WC gallery. Once, Rich made a comment to me directly that i think most people on NPN would have found personally offensive. I could have deleted it--i chose not to. From the total of Rich's posts/comments, i don't think he intended to offend--just a quirk of his personality that obviously doesnt translate well via e-communication. I just responded with an equal dose of sarcasm. I realize that some of this gets a little out of control and probably doesnt appeal to the majority of members, so i seriously try to ensure that clear lines aren't crossed. I just try to err on the side of less censorship, cause the more censorship there is, the more likely i'm next in line to be booted out
I will note that i did delete one of Charlies posts that was offensive to a particular religious group. I emailed him and explained my decision to delete, and he responded that he understood the decision, was just trying to be funny and meant no disrespect.
Posted by Eva McDermott on March 4, 2011 at 11:01 PM
Thanks for updating us Jim. I figured something was up with Charlie's cryptic postings in the discussion forum. I am very sorry for his personal situation (we all have some challenges, personal crosses to bear) but we can not let that change how we do business here. I did notice he and Rich Mayer were "buddies" (at least through comments here on NPN in M&N) so maybe that has more to do with his discontent albeit an escape for him. Just my opinion.
Posted by Jim Erhardt on March 5, 2011 at 11:20 AM
I just try to err on the side of less censorship, cause the more censorship there is, the more likely i'm next in line to be booted out.
NEVER!!!!!
We all have our moments when we say/do something that may leave others wondering. However, like all things in life, they our placed on our personal, subjective "scales" where we weigh the "good" with the "bad." Whether it be a house, a car, a piece of photo gear, a friend or even a spouse, it's the 'final measure" of how it all weighs out. God knows there are plenty of people who put up with my "negatives" for what ever positives they perceive.
Everyone participating in this forum brings more than their fair share of good stuff to the NPN party!
Posted by Eva McDermott on April 19, 2011 at 9:40 PM
I noticed Charlie is back today 4/19. Not a problem. He must have resolved his issues with how NPN operates on the critique front.
Yeah. Lots of folks can develop "bad" habits on other web sites and try to bring them along. Education can help the transition. His is well under way, I think.
Discussion
12 repliesNPN, is your baby and it is certainly a wonderful source of pleasure and education for a great group of people. I sincerely do wish you well and if I may be so bold as to suggest something to you, it would be to use you skills at organization to think deeply as to how you might loosen the reins a little. Enough to allow truely open discussions about things that you may not agree with. The arbitrary deleting of, not nasty or dishonest, postings by members is something that (I believe) will eventually cause greater and continueing problems for you. Of course you should always have that veto power for those instances where severe disruption is caused by a member, BUT, (I believe) some obligation exists in a group of individuals that provide the material (photographs) that has the public appeal that NPN enjoys and profits from, not to mention that those member pay to have their valuable material displayed on NPN.
So Jim I'll be watching and hoping that things become at least a little more open to members feeling free to express their thoughts as to the working of a group they are so vital a part.
Regards,
Charlie Baugh
-----------------------------------
Charlie,
Thanks for taking the time to write. I wish you well too!
My wife Donna really enjoys to cook, especially baking. For the 32 years we have been married, she never fails to come up with some mighty tasty cookies, pies, cakes, etc. (none of which have done my beltline any favors). One of the aspects of her baking is the way she adds ingredients - a little of this, a little of that. It became obvious to me that subtle changes in the kind or amount of ingredients can have a pretty big impact on the outcome. She knows exactly what it is she's trying to make, knows how she has to make it but there always seems to a bit of intuition involved as well.
So it is with a large online community like NPN. We know exactly what it is we wish to accomplish and the "flavor" we need to maintain to cultivate it. Just like the ingredients in one of Donna's pies, there's a certain amount of judgement involved and we have learned over the last 11 years what works and what doesn't.
NPN is without a doubt a place where people make friends and develop an online social network. This is just human nature. But we also must maintain the "ingredients" of participation "just so" otherwise the entire flavor of the experience changes, and not always for the better.
I think the most common theme of interest for 99% of our members is their intense devotion to nature photography. They come as well to escape the everyday trials and tribulations of life, so NPN is also a refuge from all the other "stuff" they have to deal with and be exposed to every day. Nature photography is their escape and NPN is their escape vehicle.
I think to enjoy NPN to it's fullest, you need to be able to focus on the intent of the site to the exclusion of everything else. At the end of the day, most members really don't care how the site is run or want to engage in deep conversation about the merits of site policy. This is nothing more than a distraction to the majority of them.
So it is I have the unenviable task of maintaining the "flavor" of NPN and to watch out for the "ingredients" that could ruin the flavor. Our members take their nature photography very seriously and enjoy the fact that NPN is a place where they can focus on it without distraction. Though not everyone may agree with how we have managed to maintain the flavor of NPN, the vast majority appreciate the fact that we do.
There are countless sites where people can go to make friends, establish an online social network, engage in small talk, find a new girlfriend, talk politics, complain about their job, crack jokes, etc., but these things are simply outside the scope of NPN. This is what makes NPN unique and keeps avid nature photographers coming back.
I hope this makes sense to you and sheds some light on how/why we operate NPN the way we do.
Good luck to you!
Best regards,
Jim
There was a snide edge and general cryptic nature to most of his posts, always stirring for others to commit themselves on his half-baked pronouncements while he refused to elaborate. I won't engage those social "skills" on the street, much less online.
Now, let's talk more about Donna's great baking!
I've also heard from Rich Mayer. I will not respond to his antagonistic emails, but suffice to say getting him off NPN was 100% the right call.
I was a bit surprised and dissapointed to see that Charlie had 'departed'--i liked his style, from what i saw he never crossed the line. (EDIT: see below)
I even was a bit dissapointed to see all of Rich's posts vanish from the WC gallery. Once, Rich made a comment to me directly that i think most people on NPN would have found personally offensive. I could have deleted it--i chose not to. From the total of Rich's posts/comments, i don't think he intended to offend--just a quirk of his personality that obviously doesnt translate well via e-communication. I just responded with an equal dose of sarcasm. I realize that some of this gets a little out of control and probably doesnt appeal to the majority of members, so i seriously try to ensure that clear lines aren't crossed. I just try to err on the side of less censorship, cause the more censorship there is, the more likely i'm next in line to be booted out
We all have our moments when we say/do something that may leave others wondering. However, like all things in life, they our placed on our personal, subjective "scales" where we weigh the "good" with the "bad." Whether it be a house, a car, a piece of photo gear, a friend or even a spouse, it's the 'final measure" of how it all weighs out. God knows there are plenty of people who put up with my "negatives" for what ever positives they perceive.
Everyone participating in this forum brings more than their fair share of good stuff to the NPN party!
--P