I was researching some modifications to my website the other day and came across an interesting thread in a web customization forum. Basically, it started with someone asking others to "like" their Facebook Page and they would reciprocate...thereby expanding their network within this increasingly important marketing tool/space. Others began to join in the thread and soon there were dozens of folks "liking" each other (sounds kinda dirty). Anyways, I thought this would be an interesting experiment to try here on NPN.
So...please "like" me by going to My Facebook Page. If you want to expand your network as well, just post a link to your page and I'll gladly return the favor.
Ok, I like you (I mean that in a nice way ). You can like me too by clicking on the Facebook link in my NPN signature block. Nice fall shots on your web site. Love the vibrant colors!
Exposing myself as a geezer of the first water, I just don't get this "liking" business. How does a bunch of photographers networking each other result in more sales? We've been successful in our photo business for over 20 years, and nary a cent has come from other photographers. The network of photographers looks cool and feels good, but how does it result in photographers buying pictures from each other?
I'm not being critical and not saying don't do it, but I won't invest the slightest effort or interest if the point is marketing to other photographers.
Posted by Mike Moats on February 5, 2011 at 12:34 AM
Hey Hank, your right you won't sell your images to other photographers, but for me I sell my e-books and workshops to people who have linked up with me through facebook, but agree if your trying to market your images, photographers are totally the wrong market.
Posted by Mia McPherson on February 5, 2011 at 7:10 AM
I had a photographer from another forum; a moderator in fact, "harvest" my email address from the members list there. I clicked ok to the friend request and then proceeded to get bombarded by them with "ads" for their workshops. Not even a "Hi, I am ____, nice to meet you".
I really didn't like that at all. They got unfriended and unliked. Now the only people I friend are people I actually know.
Hmmm...same experiment, different result...interesting. Maybe we can take this thread in somewhat of a different direction. I'll throw some responses/comment into the mix to, hopefully, add to the discussion and see where it goes. I'm interested in hearing the perspective of others on this topic.
@ Angela - thanks, liked you back.
@ Hank - I am relatively new to the art of photography and have certainly relied on the services (e.g. ebooks, workshops, etc.) of other, more experienced, photographers to improve my skill and shape my style. However, those may not be services you offer.
@ Hank and Mike - I agree that other photographers would probably not be your primary market, but I am surprised to hear you say that other photographers would not be a market at all. I would think that nature photography is similar to other mediums in that some of the biggest admirers of a photographer's work are other photographers, of all ability levels. How many painters or sculpters only have their own art in their homes? I am curious to hear if other photographers have had this experience and why they think that might be.
@ Mia - I too have a rule that I won't "friend" anyone that I haven't met. I also make it a point to make sure that my security settings keep my information (e.g. email) visible only to those that I want it to be (friends only vs. friends of friends or everyone). The security settings are one of the greatest features of Facebook, but they can also be confusing and lead to information getting out to folks you don't want it to. I usually follow a more conservative path with my security settings. Also, as you said, you can always "unlike" a page or "unfriend" someone (if it were only that easy in the real world :) ).
A few more comments for discussion - As photographers, we don't all have the same style, subjects, ability, services, or geographic location. One thing that we all share, I think, is the love for nature and the appreciation of a skillfully crafted image. Wouldn't these be the attributes of good market. Also, isn't it always a good thing to expand your network/exposure? Keep in mind that I'm saying this a relative noob to photography. Not only am I not in the league of a vast majority of NPN members, but I also don't have the experience that would lead me to believe, for a second, that I'm entirely right. In that spirit, what do others think?
Posted by Lorna Taylor on February 5, 2011 at 10:11 AM
Hi Joseph , I am not on Facebook guess at the tender age of 42 I am already to set in my ways. I am on a few sites that require posting and comments and find even these hard to always fit into my day .Facebook and the others require time I just don't have time for. Anyway I am commenting because or photographers buying photography. It has been my experience when I sell my work I have two solo month long art shows a year and until a recent move knew over two hundred members of mine and other local photo groups and I can say as much as they loved what they saw and comments as such, I have never sold any of my work to another photographer. Also the same goes for my paintings I have never sold to another artist one of my pieces ,at which time I knew well over two hundred from local guilds. But funny enough the painters buy the prints and the photographers buy the paintings. I think unless you are a huge name in either medium we don't tend to purchase each others work. I completely agree with Mike though that it is a great tool to use if you are sell workshops and e-books because of the ability to reach your target audience , social networking is fantastic for these purposes. But they are not things I provide (yet), maybe someday I will. Last year alone I sold over 97 paintings and could not begin to guess how many prints, so as far as a test as to what each artist in there different formats purchase I think this a pretty fare hypothesis. Cheers
I won't do FaceBook. I have no interest in it from either a personal or professional point of view. I am also concerned about the security of information. A dating site recently posted the personal information of many hundreds of FaceBook'ers without their permission or knowledge. I won't take a chance with something like that.
While FB may be good for virtual marketing and building a social network, I think that an excellent website, an online portfolio service, and perhaps a Blog are safer bets.
All of my print sales (except one) have been to non-photographers. So, I don't feel any need to market directly to them.
Thanks for adding to the discussion Lorna and Preston. On the topic of target audience, your experience seems to support the idea that photographers don't purchase the work of other photographers. Anybody want to comment on why they think this might be the case? I would guess that it has something to do with knowing who the greats are and only purchasing prints from those that one would consider a mentor...or do you think Galen Rowell and Ansel Adams would have had the same experiences?
On the topic of Facebook, expanding my network with other photographers may not make sense from a marketing standpoint right now, since I don't offer ebooks or workshops, but I can't see where it would hurt me either (assuming I take an educated and conservative approach to the security of my personal info). I certainly am still of the mind that gaining more non-photographer "Facebook fans" is a beneficial way to increase exposure and remain on the minds of those that might be looking for nature photography. I can't exactly be sure how big of a role social media will play as a marketing channel for me as a nature photographer, but I do know that these communities are GROWING, VERY active, and no longer just for kids.
Anybody have any other opinions or experiences that could add to this debate?
Posted by Lorna Taylor on February 5, 2011 at 3:38 PM
Hey I say what ever floats your boat, if you have the time and motivation there are so many great ways now thanks to the internet to get ourselves out there and make people aware of our work . I am just not there yet! I thing the social networking has been of great benefit for people like Mike Moats and Darwin Wiggett to name a few it just does not fit where I am at in my artist level and energy level! Great topic ! Cheers
Posted by Phillip Noll on February 5, 2011 at 6:05 PM
No Facebook for me personally. I just don't see the draw and I have no intention of putting my personal info out there for everyone to see. Besides, Facebook's security is severely lacking in my opinion.
However, if I ever get my website up and my business running, I may create a business page on Facebook just to use as a marketing tool (not to other photographers but to family and friends and their friends and their friends, and their friends, ad infinitum! ).
Posted by Vincent Nobel on February 5, 2011 at 6:26 PM
I have a website based on a wordpress blog that allows me to share my posts via twitter and facebook along with links to those sites. I agree it's not for everyone but in my case I've increased the number of people to my site (it's been up for only about 8 months)
@ Hank and Mike - I agree that other photographers would probably not be your primary market, but I am surprised to hear you say that other photographers would not be a market at all. I would think that nature photography is similar to other mediums in that some of the biggest admirers of a photographer's work are other photographers, of all ability levels.
Believe it. Other photographers want you to spend lots of time telling them where you took the picture, how you took the picture, what camera and lenses you used, and how you processed the image. Then they want to tell you all about their camera gear and how they plan to use it to go take the same shot. Then they leave without touching their wallets.
If FB changes that pattern and turns photographers into buyers rather than tire kickers, I'm all for it. On the other hand, it's likely ideal for Mike's uses- selling workshops and books- because at least you can charge for the advice, rather than giving it away for free.
Posted by Lorna Taylor on February 6, 2011 at 12:25 AM
Touche Hank!!!!
Posted by Stan Rose on February 7, 2011 at 6:54 AM
I joined Facebook early on when a distant cousin sent me an invite. Now, thanks to being an NPN moderator among other things, i get several 'friend requests' a day from folks (mostly photographers) who i dont know, but since they have dozens of 'mutual friends' theyre generally safe so i just accept the invite, I dont mind the networking and being part of a bigger community, i just dont like it when i get bombarded with the adds and requests to join this or that right after i accept someones friend invite. Im not really big on the social networking sites. I joined Myspace music site early on for my musical alter ego, and i was pretty disgusted by the rabid attempts to add 'friends' in an attempt to look important or successful.
I generally dont buy other photographers stuff, but i also dont buy much music anymore (and i used to buy tons of it) mainly cause im doing my own thing right now, and influences are mainly internal right now. I shoot what i like the most, so thats what i end up printing, theres just no reason (and i dont have the space anyways) to collect other folk's work. I still like it
Thanks for all the comments folks. This is all very interesting to me and it's great to get the perspective of experienced photogs. This discussion has also motivated me to purchase at least one print made by a phtographer other than me. Since NPN has done so many things for me in my growth as a photographer, one criteria is that it will have to come from a member
I am careful about the type of info I post (like all the cash I keep in the garbage can under the bird feed ), but generally have found it a great way to stay in touch with everyone or anyone I know or have known.
I'm all the way up to 7 friends now too, which is 5 more than I thought I had...
Posted by D J Kuklinski on February 10, 2011 at 6:11 PM
Yes, but under my first name.
Posted by Bret Edge on February 13, 2011 at 5:51 PM
Hank: I lead group workshops and private guided photo excursions, and marketing to other photographers is how I sell workshops and tours. It certainly isn't the best way to market fine art prints or stock, but for this one aspect of my business, it's proven valuable.
Discussion
20 repliesSo...please "like" me by going to My Facebook Page. If you want to expand your network as well, just post a link to your page and I'll gladly return the favor.
Here's to experimentation
I'm not being critical and not saying don't do it, but I won't invest the slightest effort or interest if the point is marketing to other photographers.
I really didn't like that at all. They got unfriended and unliked. Now the only people I friend are people I actually know.
@ Angela - thanks, liked you back.
@ Hank - I am relatively new to the art of photography and have certainly relied on the services (e.g. ebooks, workshops, etc.) of other, more experienced, photographers to improve my skill and shape my style. However, those may not be services you offer.
@ Hank and Mike - I agree that other photographers would probably not be your primary market, but I am surprised to hear you say that other photographers would not be a market at all. I would think that nature photography is similar to other mediums in that some of the biggest admirers of a photographer's work are other photographers, of all ability levels. How many painters or sculpters only have their own art in their homes? I am curious to hear if other photographers have had this experience and why they think that might be.
@ Mia - I too have a rule that I won't "friend" anyone that I haven't met. I also make it a point to make sure that my security settings keep my information (e.g. email) visible only to those that I want it to be (friends only vs. friends of friends or everyone). The security settings are one of the greatest features of Facebook, but they can also be confusing and lead to information getting out to folks you don't want it to. I usually follow a more conservative path with my security settings. Also, as you said, you can always "unlike" a page or "unfriend" someone (if it were only that easy in the real world :) ).
A few more comments for discussion - As photographers, we don't all have the same style, subjects, ability, services, or geographic location. One thing that we all share, I think, is the love for nature and the appreciation of a skillfully crafted image. Wouldn't these be the attributes of good market. Also, isn't it always a good thing to expand your network/exposure? Keep in mind that I'm saying this a relative noob to photography. Not only am I not in the league of a vast majority of NPN members, but I also don't have the experience that would lead me to believe, for a second, that I'm entirely right. In that spirit, what do others think?
While FB may be good for virtual marketing and building a social network, I think that an excellent website, an online portfolio service, and perhaps a Blog are safer bets.
All of my print sales (except one) have been to non-photographers. So, I don't feel any need to market directly to them.
--P
On the topic of Facebook, expanding my network with other photographers may not make sense from a marketing standpoint right now, since I don't offer ebooks or workshops, but I can't see where it would hurt me either (assuming I take an educated and conservative approach to the security of my personal info). I certainly am still of the mind that gaining more non-photographer "Facebook fans" is a beneficial way to increase exposure and remain on the minds of those that might be looking for nature photography. I can't exactly be sure how big of a role social media will play as a marketing channel for me as a nature photographer, but I do know that these communities are GROWING, VERY active, and no longer just for kids.
Anybody have any other opinions or experiences that could add to this debate?
However, if I ever get my website up and my business running, I may create a business page on Facebook just to use as a marketing tool (not to other photographers but to family and friends and their friends and their friends, and their friends, ad infinitum!
Believe it. Other photographers want you to spend lots of time telling them where you took the picture, how you took the picture, what camera and lenses you used, and how you processed the image. Then they want to tell you all about their camera gear and how they plan to use it to go take the same shot. Then they leave without touching their wallets.
If FB changes that pattern and turns photographers into buyers rather than tire kickers, I'm all for it. On the other hand, it's likely ideal for Mike's uses- selling workshops and books- because at least you can charge for the advice, rather than giving it away for free.
I generally dont buy other photographers stuff, but i also dont buy much music anymore (and i used to buy tons of it) mainly cause im doing my own thing right now, and influences are mainly internal right now. I shoot what i like the most, so thats what i end up printing, theres just no reason (and i dont have the space anyways) to collect other folk's work. I still like it
That's the seed of a revolution!
If facebook can inspire more to do the same, then it's a very good thing.
I am careful about the type of info I post (like all the cash I keep in the garbage can under the bird feed
I'm all the way up to 7 friends now too, which is 5 more than I thought I had...
For those who are interested, here's my Facebook fan page: Bret Edge Photography on Facebook.