Posted by Phillip Noll on January 16, 2011 at 5:01 PM
I'm getting my new website ready for launch and one of the items I'm agonizing over is whether or not to sign my prints. I will be using various print labs to produce fine art prints (inkjet on fine art paper), canvas wraps, laminated prints, and metal prints. My initial idea was to have the printer drop ship the prints directly to the customer without my signature. Saves me time, money, and hassle. But does it devalue my prints?
I've spoken with a few photogs about this and read some articles and I haven't seen any clear consensus--some sign and some do not. Some embed a digital signature and others don't. Some say they have lost sales by not signing and others have not.
Pros of signing:
-Signature *may* create perceived value (more desirable, higher price)
-Can check print quality before prints arrives at customer
-Some galleries require signatures (and limited editions)
-There's probably more but I can't think of them right now!
Pros of NOT signing:
-The signature doesn't detract from the image (a minor consideration)
-I'm not a famous photographer so my signature is meaningless anyway
-I don't have to unpack--sign--repack--and reship the prints (major consideration)
-Saves me money on shipping/packaging costs
-Not signing gets the prints to the customers faster
-I don't run the risk of ruining a print (screwed up signature or dripping ink)
-Any shipping problems are handled by the printer who ships the prints and not me
-Not practical to sign metal, canvas, or laminated prints
-If you travel a lot its not practical to sign prints
So I'm curious as to what you all do and why? What is your reasoning behind your signing or not signing your prints? Does your target market dictate whether or not you sign? Have you lost sales by not signing? Do you digitally sign?
We're generating studio prints, but we hand-sign 11x14 and larger, and imprint everything smaller.
Here's another "pro" for signing. Ethical print labs, right down to Walmart, won't copy signed and copyrighted prints for anyone but you without written permission directly from you. It's amazing how many people buy work with the intent of doing just that. And it's reassuring that ethical labs won't play ball. Unsigned, the lab has no clue that it's not the work of their client.
On the logistic side, we post session and wedding portfolios onto a host site and clients buy directly from there. Orders go from the host to our lab. But rather than having the lab ship directly to the client, we have them ship to us. We open all orders, inspect the work and either sign or imprint before shipping it on to the client. One of the really nice benefits is the top-grade packaging our lab uses. We just reseal and send, solving one of the biggest hassles for shipping home-generated prints.
Posted by Kenn Leonhardt on January 16, 2011 at 10:19 PM
The majority that I've printed have been for myself and my family, and I never signed them.
For non-family orders, then I have been leaving it up to the customer as to whether they want me to sign it or not.
I'm probably going to start signing everything though, as I recently became aware of people asking family members if they could copy the prints I gave them. My penmanship isn't great and I always feel terrible writing on a print, so I may scan in my signature and apply it digitally to avoid the risk of a screw-up.
My penmanship isn't great and I always feel terrible writing on a print, so I may scan in my signature and apply it digitally to avoid the risk of a screw-up.
That's a great idea. My writing barely qualifies as "penmanship", so my wife is Chief Signer. About 20 years ago we bought a little machine that uses custom dies with your signature, heat and special heat-sensitive "ink" tapes to imprint a signature directly onto prints. It's really handy, but the signature is too small for anything larger than 8x10. The machines are also waaaaaay too expensive for small volumes of prints.
How's your wife's penmanship?
Posted by Paul DeCesare on January 17, 2011 at 12:57 PM
Signature *may* create perceived value
Let's do a slight edit, and you will have your answer:
Signature creates perceived value.
Floris was absolutely right, you're an artist, and your signature is the stamp of approval from your side of the fence and an assurance of value on the buyer's side. I know, I know, we're destroying that wonderful plan you have there for direct-ship, lol! But seriously, a signed print overwhelming adds to the perceived value, but in the long run also contributes to your progression as you further your craft. Atom effect: the more genuine Phillip Noll original hand-signed prints on people's walls, the more potential desire for Phillip Noll original hand-signed prints on people's walls. Capisce?
Side story: I gave a few prints away to coworkers as gifts. Every one of them practically shoved a pen in my hand to sign it. You don't HAVE to sign them, but it adds value to your work and your brand.
My penmanship is also terrible. I was suppose to be a lefty, but grew up in a time when righty was forced on me. SO, now, I am "lefty as a righty"! SO what does that have to do with anything?
I sign my prints or mattes with a "custom" initial! It is a T connected to an N all in two strokes. Some think it is a T and a W...first stroke IS a W and second stroke slashes over the left angle of the W making it a T connected to an N. It actually looks pretty nice. I can then sign (scribble) the print on the back with my full name and email address and phone number should I desire. I usually use gold ink for the initials or silver when it complements the print better. There have been threads about this that you might search and find.
Troup
Posted by Phillip Noll on January 17, 2011 at 7:15 PM
Thanks for the replies so far. I did look at older threads but those are mainly concerned with where (on the mat, in the image, on the border, etc.) and how (pencil, pigment ink pen, etc.) to sign instead of whether or not you should sign at all.
I'm trying to decide if the benefits and cost savings of drop shipping to the customer outweigh the perceived increase in value obtained by signing a print. I still haven't made up my mind as I have heard excellent arguments both ways. I was hoping more people would chime in with their perspective and reasons for it. Might help me get off the fence!!
I was hoping more people would chime in with their perspective and reasons for it.
I suspect more aren't responding because most folks sign, Phillip. "Why do you sign?" or conversely "Why don't you sign?" presented individually rather than lumped might elicit a few more, but perhaps not.
One more reason for NOT drop-shipping direct to the customer is the opportunity for you to inspect the work before it moves on to your customer. An alert lab like ours spots color balance or other problems before shipping and calls us, but I'm not sure all would do so. Call it a "keep em honest" or perhaps "trust but verify" policy on our part, even with lab having a good track record. You certainly don't want problem prints to get into your customer's hands, then field the complaint and ask the customer to ship them to you, then inspect, then ship them to your lab to start the cycle start over again!
A lab I used thru my provider drop shipped a metallic print to my customer. Turns out the image was an older one, not in focus so well since it was taken from a moving boat, etc. Customer not happy. If I had had the print shipped to me first, I could have stopped it right there. My lab did the right thing. Customer had to cut the print in half and photo it and send the image to the lab. They promptly refunded the money. I made several contacts with the customer during this period and even sent them a better image electronically for free. This all happened because I was not in control of the process. I did all this to lesson the blow to the customer. She felt I gave great service even though I could not give her the print she wanted. Maybe she will come back, maybe not. But maybe now she won't dis me! Lesson learned!!!!
I think you're trying to apply a logic more suited to mass manufacturing than to art sales. Cutting costs and activities down to the last penny/minute is a good strategy when you're selling commodities at large volumes and when you have to compete with others who produce identical items.
People don't buy art to stock up shelves, they buy it because they make a personal/emotional connection with it. A signature contributes directly to this connection and the reason why someone might pick YOUR image over someone else's. Sacrificing it for the sake of saving 5 minutes to unpack/repack or a couple of days in transit doesn't make much sense in this scenario.
I don't have the nearly the amount of experience that some people do on here, but I am currently not signing my prints. I did a bunch of research on it too and the arguments on past posts are much the same of what is being presented on here.
Here's my thought process: I don't like my signature and I think it detracts from the aesthetics of the photograph. I look at other's photographs and I could care less if they sign it or not. Plus, I don't want to run the risk of screwing it up. For me, it has nothing to do with "stamp of approval", "being an artist", "take personal pride", "having self confidence", etc.
For example, I recently did my first two art shows and did not sign any of my pieces. My art sold relatively well and I had hundreds and hundreds people in my booth asking me every type of stupid question imaginable. Through all of that, I did not have one person anything about signatures. No one requested it and no one asked me why I didn't do it. (To be fair, I don't whether my art would have sold even better had I signed the pieces)
If my stuff was in a really nice gallery or my signature looked great I certainly sign. Presently, that's not the case. I am selling at art festivals and people are buying my prints because they look great in their bathroom and or in their family room. Honestly, I don't think most people (excluding hardcore collectors) really care. Plus, I use black matting and the signature sticks out like a sore thumb on the mats. (There is no way I am signing right on a 12 x 18 print)
If you don't want to sign, then don't sign. You can always sign it someone asks you to. However, you can't take it off if someone doesn't want it on there.
In summary, if you want to sign it, fantastic go for it and God bless ya. If you are having reservations about it, I personally wouldn't do it unless it was requested. That being said, all this talk about only "artists" sign their work is complete rubbish in my opinion. Respectfully, I think we need to ask ourselves how self-important we are, how pretentious we have become, and how big of ego's we have....
It's funny, I have had the exact opposite experience from Michael's. In the end, it's what ever you are comfortable with. But every person that has bought a print from me has "wanted" my signature on it. I'm self concious about my penmanship too. I don't have a fancy personalized signature either, just standard cursive. I thought the "simple" look to it might turn people off, but not so far. Also, I print an extra couople of inches of cavas around my images. I cut the mat to allow about 3/8 or so of that white canvas. That's where I sign, not on any of the printed area. That way, if someone really wanted to, they could cover it with a different mat.
A customer's desire for my signature tells me they assign value to it, and consider it art. Putting it there tells them that I value my work and endorse that value, and quality. If it's good enough to ask a price, then it's worthy of that endorsement, IMO!
Chris
Posted by Phillip Noll on January 22, 2011 at 5:38 PM
Well......after reading your replies, talking with people, and reading more on the Internet, I think I will be signing my prints. At least I will start off that way and see how it goes. Does make sense to indicate the quality is there and that you value your own work. If that creates more perceived value then that's just fine!
Thanks for replying to this post and helping me decide!
Posted by Roger Rouch on February 13, 2011 at 10:28 AM
I'm finding this thread rather late, but will pass along what I've done if it might help. I don't sign prints on the front, but prepare a small sized sqaure of paper with an abreviated artists statement and a short description of the photo. Then my signature. If I sell a print only, I will include this loose. If it is a framed print, I attach it to the backing. This seems to get around many of the pros and cons.
Discussion
15 repliesI've spoken with a few photogs about this and read some articles and I haven't seen any clear consensus--some sign and some do not. Some embed a digital signature and others don't. Some say they have lost sales by not signing and others have not.
Pros of signing:
-Signature *may* create perceived value (more desirable, higher price)
-Can check print quality before prints arrives at customer
-Some galleries require signatures (and limited editions)
-There's probably more but I can't think of them right now!
Pros of NOT signing:
-The signature doesn't detract from the image (a minor consideration)
-I'm not a famous photographer so my signature is meaningless anyway
-I don't have to unpack--sign--repack--and reship the prints (major consideration)
-Saves me money on shipping/packaging costs
-Not signing gets the prints to the customers faster
-I don't run the risk of ruining a print (screwed up signature or dripping ink)
-Any shipping problems are handled by the printer who ships the prints and not me
-Not practical to sign metal, canvas, or laminated prints
-If you travel a lot its not practical to sign prints
So I'm curious as to what you all do and why? What is your reasoning behind your signing or not signing your prints? Does your target market dictate whether or not you sign? Have you lost sales by not signing? Do you digitally sign?
Looking forward to your replies!
Here's another "pro" for signing. Ethical print labs, right down to Walmart, won't copy signed and copyrighted prints for anyone but you without written permission directly from you. It's amazing how many people buy work with the intent of doing just that. And it's reassuring that ethical labs won't play ball. Unsigned, the lab has no clue that it's not the work of their client.
On the logistic side, we post session and wedding portfolios onto a host site and clients buy directly from there. Orders go from the host to our lab. But rather than having the lab ship directly to the client, we have them ship to us. We open all orders, inspect the work and either sign or imprint before shipping it on to the client. One of the really nice benefits is the top-grade packaging our lab uses. We just reseal and send, solving one of the biggest hassles for shipping home-generated prints.
For non-family orders, then I have been leaving it up to the customer as to whether they want me to sign it or not.
I'm probably going to start signing everything though, as I recently became aware of people asking family members if they could copy the prints I gave them. My penmanship isn't great and I always feel terrible writing on a print, so I may scan in my signature and apply it digitally to avoid the risk of a screw-up.
That's a great idea. My writing barely qualifies as "penmanship", so my wife is Chief Signer. About 20 years ago we bought a little machine that uses custom dies with your signature, heat and special heat-sensitive "ink" tapes to imprint a signature directly onto prints. It's really handy, but the signature is too small for anything larger than 8x10. The machines are also waaaaaay too expensive for small volumes of prints.
How's your wife's penmanship?
Let's do a slight edit, and you will have your answer:
Signature creates perceived value.
Floris was absolutely right, you're an artist, and your signature is the stamp of approval from your side of the fence and an assurance of value on the buyer's side. I know, I know, we're destroying that wonderful plan you have there for direct-ship, lol! But seriously, a signed print overwhelming adds to the perceived value, but in the long run also contributes to your progression as you further your craft. Atom effect: the more genuine Phillip Noll original hand-signed prints on people's walls, the more potential desire for Phillip Noll original hand-signed prints on people's walls. Capisce?
Side story: I gave a few prints away to coworkers as gifts. Every one of them practically shoved a pen in my hand to sign it. You don't HAVE to sign them, but it adds value to your work and your brand.
[edited for spelling]
I sign my prints or mattes with a "custom" initial! It is a T connected to an N all in two strokes. Some think it is a T and a W...first stroke IS a W and second stroke slashes over the left angle of the W making it a T connected to an N. It actually looks pretty nice. I can then sign (scribble) the print on the back with my full name and email address and phone number should I desire. I usually use gold ink for the initials or silver when it complements the print better. There have been threads about this that you might search and find.
Troup
I'm trying to decide if the benefits and cost savings of drop shipping to the customer outweigh the perceived increase in value obtained by signing a print. I still haven't made up my mind as I have heard excellent arguments both ways. I was hoping more people would chime in with their perspective and reasons for it. Might help me get off the fence!!
I suspect more aren't responding because most folks sign, Phillip. "Why do you sign?" or conversely "Why don't you sign?" presented individually rather than lumped might elicit a few more, but perhaps not.
One more reason for NOT drop-shipping direct to the customer is the opportunity for you to inspect the work before it moves on to your customer. An alert lab like ours spots color balance or other problems before shipping and calls us, but I'm not sure all would do so. Call it a "keep em honest" or perhaps "trust but verify" policy on our part, even with lab having a good track record. You certainly don't want problem prints to get into your customer's hands, then field the complaint and ask the customer to ship them to you, then inspect, then ship them to your lab to start the cycle start over again!
Oh yeah, and I didn't have a chance to sign it!!
Troup
I think you're trying to apply a logic more suited to mass manufacturing than to art sales. Cutting costs and activities down to the last penny/minute is a good strategy when you're selling commodities at large volumes and when you have to compete with others who produce identical items.
People don't buy art to stock up shelves, they buy it because they make a personal/emotional connection with it. A signature contributes directly to this connection and the reason why someone might pick YOUR image over someone else's. Sacrificing it for the sake of saving 5 minutes to unpack/repack or a couple of days in transit doesn't make much sense in this scenario.
Guy
I don't have the nearly the amount of experience that some people do on here, but I am currently not signing my prints. I did a bunch of research on it too and the arguments on past posts are much the same of what is being presented on here.
Here's my thought process: I don't like my signature and I think it detracts from the aesthetics of the photograph. I look at other's photographs and I could care less if they sign it or not. Plus, I don't want to run the risk of screwing it up. For me, it has nothing to do with "stamp of approval", "being an artist", "take personal pride", "having self confidence", etc.
For example, I recently did my first two art shows and did not sign any of my pieces. My art sold relatively well and I had hundreds and hundreds people in my booth asking me every type of stupid question imaginable. Through all of that, I did not have one person anything about signatures. No one requested it and no one asked me why I didn't do it. (To be fair, I don't whether my art would have sold even better had I signed the pieces)
If my stuff was in a really nice gallery or my signature looked great I certainly sign. Presently, that's not the case. I am selling at art festivals and people are buying my prints because they look great in their bathroom and or in their family room. Honestly, I don't think most people (excluding hardcore collectors) really care. Plus, I use black matting and the signature sticks out like a sore thumb on the mats. (There is no way I am signing right on a 12 x 18 print)
If you don't want to sign, then don't sign. You can always sign it someone asks you to. However, you can't take it off if someone doesn't want it on there.
In summary, if you want to sign it, fantastic go for it and God bless ya. If you are having reservations about it, I personally wouldn't do it unless it was requested. That being said, all this talk about only "artists" sign their work is complete rubbish in my opinion. Respectfully, I think we need to ask ourselves how self-important we are, how pretentious we have become, and how big of ego's we have....
A customer's desire for my signature tells me they assign value to it, and consider it art. Putting it there tells them that I value my work and endorse that value, and quality. If it's good enough to ask a price, then it's worthy of that endorsement, IMO!
Chris
Thanks for replying to this post and helping me decide!