I find myself getting irritated at some people when they think or don't want to pay a photographer the price that a photographer is asking for a print because it is more than they are willing to pay.
Recently I rode to D.C. with a motorcycle group I belong too. I casually took pictures of the trip to include a couple and their dog that rode with us. Their dog drew alot of attention from the public because they have him dressed in a motorcycle outfit. I took a few shots of them and posted the pictures on my website, as I do for all of the trips or events we get envolved with.
When I do this, I do not set the pictures up for sale from the site. I download the pictures to show others what we do as a group. Plus, I do alot more to some of the pictures to dress them up or create special effects because I find it fun.
Well, this couple saw the pictures on my website I worked up of their dog and fell in love with the pics. The wife emailed me about what I would charge to print some pictures for them. I quoted them my prices from 13x19 down to 4x6. They said these pictures are by far the best they seen of their dog.
The wife emiled me back stating the $4.00 I wanted for a 4x6 was more than she wanted to pay.
That is why I get irritated. Most people do not know how much time and effort goes into processing a single picture let alone alot of them. Plus, the extra time a photographer puts into a photo when they do special effects. They would not get this type service from a standard photo processing business, most print what you take.
So, she did not order any prints. But, when you watch what people do spend money on without a second thought, like a $3.00 cup of coffee or in this case I saw them spend $6.00 on two small bottles of water which is gone within a few minutes. Yet, they do not stop and think that a $4.00 picture, taken care of, will last a lifetime and longer, is one heck of an investment and money well spent.
So, here is what I am going to this weekend, we are planning another trip to D.C. to the Arlington Memorial. I have printed off (5)different 4x6 pictures of them and their dog. I am going to give them these pictures for free, because I am that type of person! I usually do not do this.
Maybe I should not do this, but I will get some satisfation from it..and maybe, just maybe, they will develope a different way of thinking, or feel guilty and try to pay me for the pictures for which I will not except payment. I am not trying to cause trouble, but dagnabbit?
Maybe I am wrong, but I need to let off a little steam.
If any of you have encountered something similar or have a different viewpoint or ideas on how to handle or approach people with this thought process, I would like to hear about it.
Thanks for letting me vent!!
Posted is one of the pictures I did of their dog in CS4, it took about 2 hours to come up with an idea and to finish it after I found a flag to use for the background. $4.00 too much for a 4x6, I don't think so!!
The wife emiled me back stating the $4.00 I wanted for a 4x6 was more than she wanted to pay.
I would have lost my lid... People will spend so much more on such ridiculous purchases (lotto tickets anyone??) as you pointed out. I think what you have chosen to do is a great route (there are several other options of course) and in the end they might purchase some more to give to friends and family. At least you are taking the high road AND getting the last word - not an easy accomplishment.
Love your work here, I'd pay a lot more for it..Being a patriot & dog lover makes it a most desirable image :)
Hard to understand why she was such a cheapskate.
Many people just don't grasp how much time and money goes into producing an image like this.
Maybe a sign of our times, with so much uncertainty in the economy?
It may take another downturn, so people are getting really tight with any "disposable" income.
Cute pic. I can understand that frustration, amazing how distorted people's sense of value is. Since you would basically need a release to sell any shots of the dog to anyone else, i think i might have originally offered them the pic for free in hopes they would then offer to pay for it. But i think you're doing the right thing. If they do offer to pay you, instead of refusing you might want to give it to them at cost--to educate them what the cost really is (and id include labor!)
David, I think that you did a great job here, both Photographically and PR wise.
It's gotta be one of the oldest questions about "art"..how much is a customer willing to pay versus what you believe it's worth.
I always try to maintain a decent price for my work, in spite of pressure to reduce, and sometimes losing a sale. This applies to all endeavours, not only photography. Ongoing education is one key for customers to learn what ART is worth. Yet balanced by the realities of the market.
A good rant though!
Posted by SimonRumford on July 9, 2010 at 11:56 AM
4$ is more then reasonable, I dont know why the person wont pay the 4$ when its less than a Big Mac meal at Mcdonalds for something that could be around for a lifetime, but some people dont see the value in that.....
Maybe educate her a bit advising her what does into your work, you are right most people dont see what it takes to make a great photo like the hours of editing it can take for a single image, or the fact that you were shooting all day just to get that 1 image, sure as a photographer it is what we love to do but it is something that takes a lot of work, and most people dont understand that...they just think you take the picture with your camera and put it on the internet....
I would have felt great about spending $4 on a great pet portrait like this - and no $50 sitting fee! I refuse to spend $3 for a coffee or bottle of water.
Did she say anything about the great job blending with the background? If nothing else, that should have told her a little time and effort was spent here.
You did a fantastic job on the "Pariotic Pup" portrait and you need to be compensated for it. However, I don't think this compensation will come from the dog owners. Here is why:
As several readers have already pointed out, it is not the price that this person ("the wife" as you say) objects to. $4 is nothing in today's world. It is a cup of coffee, a gallon and a half of gas, a gallon of milk and the cost of many other consumables that will be gone in minutes. On the other hand your photo will be there for a long time. It is not a consumable and it therefore falls into a totally different price category (more on this later).
What this person objects to is how the price is presented. By asking her to pay for it you are going against her expectations. My feeling is that she expects to get the photo for free. Since the difference between $4 and a gift is not financially meaningful, I suggest giving it to her as a gift. In return, ask for a model release so you can sell the photo to other clients later on. As Stan explains you do need a model release because the dog is not yours. This model release will cost you $4, a very small price to pay for “hiring” a model! Consider it the investment necessary to create this photograph.
I believe you will make much more money that way, certainly much more than $4. Also, forget about the principle of getting paid for your work and about explaining that photographs are a lot of work etc. etc. While these are legitimate concerns on your part, the buyer simply is not concerned with that. The buyer is only concerned with what they are getting from you. In that case this lady is not getting anything. She is feeling abused because you used her dog as a model and now want money from her. It is not the amount of money that bothers her. It is the principle of having to pay you for something which she feels should be given to her.
Clients buy because buying from you benefits them. Point these benefits to your clients and you will make sales. In this intance this lady does not see any benefits buying from you. Therefore she will not buy, not even if you dropped your price to a penny.
Finally, forget about that $4 price! A portrait, be it of a dog, a person, etc. is worth at the very least $50. Remember that it is easier to sell a $50 portrait than a $4 portrait because the higher you price your work the more you express pride for your work. $4 shows little pride. $50 shows a lot more pride. $500 shows a high level of pride. $5000 shows a very high level of pride. $50,000 shows an amazing level of pride. $500,000 shows an arrogantly high level of pride. $5,000,000 shows an unbelievably obscene level of pride!
Pride, in the eyes of your customers, means that they benefit from your skills as a photographer, your training, your vision and so on. This is how you express your skills, training and vision. You express them through your pricing, not by telling your clients that you worked hard on the photograph and expect to be compensated. You express all that by setting a price that reflects the fact that you worked hard and expect to be compensated! In other words, you do it nonverbally.
One of the main mistakes that photographers make when photographing someone's property, such as this dog, is to expect the owner to buy the photograph. In reality this hardly ever happens because unless the owner hired you for the shoot and paid you a shooting fee, they will want the photographs for free. This is true for cars, pets, children, real estate, etc. I fell prey to this false belief several times until I realized that the real clients are those who want to own the subject, or those who find the subject interesting. In other words, the real clients are those who do not own the subject. For them, buying the photograph is a way to “own” this subject, a way to live vicariously through the image.
As with many things related to success, the solution is between our two ears. Changing our thinking is what will change the outcome of our actions.
Thanks for your comments and insite. I am now looking at it differently now. My first intent was to just post it as part of the motorcycle group I ride with. She (the wife) approached me about the prices. I will look into the modlel release, I guess I could sell them to generate income from time to time.
Hi David,
What people see is a piece of paper with an image on it. They don't see the camera, lenses, computer, software, printer, supplies and expertise it takes to put that image on the little piece of paper. "How much can that cost? ", "you're ripping me of!f", mentality. They have a camera of some sort and thus a knowledge of photography and being a photographer just isn't that hard in their view.
It's a very small percentage that are vocal about it in my business, but they can be very disruptive. I'm OK with saying "NO" to a sale and "thanks for looking". The polite ones just say "no thank you". The majority find our prices reasonable for the product they receive and continue to keep us shooting.
Gift it if you feel you need to, but don't feel bad about saying NO either.
Love the "Doggles"
Neil
I would take the release paper with you. I would say, "Here are the images...sign this and they are yours". Period.
Posted by Mark Stahlke on July 9, 2010 at 10:22 PM
I agree with Troup Nightingale on this. Having already asked for money for the pictures, I think it's important that you get something of value in exchange for them. Giving them away might reinforce the woman's idea that your photography has no value. Her signature on a release form costs her nothing but gets a lot for you. Seems like a good compromise.
Posted by Garry Revesz on July 10, 2010 at 12:45 PM
I feel your pain David, as all of us do. The value of what we do as photographers is in the eye of the customer. The value of any product or service is established by the buyer, not the seller. I was in the IT business for many years (still am to a small degree) and in order to sell an IT project I first had to establish the value that the client placed on the project. It's a tricky process but the only way to find out what is really in the customer's mind. I could not charge $20k for a project they only valued at $10k. So through a process of discussing "must-haves", "would-like-to-have", and "not-necessary", I began to understand what the customer valued, and how much it was valued. That way I could then charge $30k and deliver what he really valued and was more than willing to pay for.
I stopped charging by the hour a long time ago. I charged by the project once I determined the dimensions and the value of what the client wanted delivered, and ended up with much happier customers, lower costs, shorter time frames and much better profits. A win-win all around. It's called "value Pricing", and I plan on incorporating the concept into my photo business because the sooner you build it into your business model the easier it is to implement and the sooner your customers accept it.
I got involved with Value Pricing many years ago while in the IT industry and had the privilege of training with Ron Baker, the guru and father of the Value Pricing movement. His work has focused on the accounting, legal and technical industries, but the concepts apply to our market every bit a well. I have already contacted Ron about his ideas in applying the concept of Value Pricing for photographers. I'll keep you posted. If interested, you can check out his site at http://www.verasage.com/.
In the meantime, Alain and the others have very succinctly made some great popints, and the only thing I would add is that but all means give the lady the prints, but make sure your watermark is evident on the prints and people know how to contact you.
There's no doubt that value pricing works well for consulting and for projects involving delivery of prints to decorate an entire space, such as an entire home or office setting. In those instances a price point can be reached because both goods and work are involved.
I don't see however how it can work when selling a single print. In that case all that is involved is a product. No additional work is required on the part of the seller.
Of course you can certainly add a service, such as decor consulting, to the print delivery or choice. But then the question becomes about what minimum price point makes this approach worthwhile since work is required of you in addition to providing the piece(s).
In other words, value based pricing works great for services. It is not effective for products. At least I have not seen it successfully implemented for the sale of products yet.
David,
Adorable shot!
All you really need to know is in Alain's first reply. Take it to heart.
I expected Hank Pennington to chime in as well and then the photo marketing world would rest balanced on its axis once more. Not being sarcastic - I mean it.
We run into this a lot. Just read and re-read Alain's post. (I learned a lot from his articles - well before he wrote for NPN)
Give a print to the owners. Get a release. Express pleasure and appreciation for the pup.
We primarily do gallery / fine art work. But...we also do a lot of event and sports work. My brother (and partner) does extreme kitesurfing freestyle and competition photography. He photographed a big tournament in the spring and it was amazing the number of competitors who emailed and said "just send all the full size shots of me to this email address" No please, no thank you, no kiss my ..., no hint of $$"
One parent, whose young son (10-11?) was competing for the first time, kept urging my brother to get more shots of the kid. Good looking kid, intense, photographed beautifully.
Brother processed gorgeous takes of the kid. Including a stunning B&W portrait conversion. Parent kept balking at the $15.00 for a 5x7 of the portrait.
Brother just kept smiling and saying, "I'm sorry. Your son is a wonderful subject and that is a favorite photo of mine from the tournament. It is a very reasonable price."
In the end the father ordered a print and we, in fact, included a bonus print of another wonderful shot of the kid.
No "thank you," no "got the print," "looks good," no nothing. No word or feedback at all.
That's the way it goes.
We should have charged more.
In the fall, I was to be a guest at an exclusive dinner for jazz musician greats, courtesy of an arts organization. Also a guest at the sold out concert the following evening.
Guess what? They ended up not having a photographer for either evening and last minute call "Lee, can you bring your camera?"
Guest to hired help in a flash.
Now the arts organization is great - sponsor and pay for our gallery expenses, pay for our booth and art show expenses, jury us in to just about everything. Happy to oblige them. They've been huge in pushing us forward against our will.
The outside sponsors, however, were a total pain. First - treated us like hired scum at the dinner (to which we'd been invited as guests), rudely barked a list of instructions the next night in the Hilton lobby before the concert. OK. Keep smiling.
They gushed - loudly and publicly - at finally having professionals to shoot the events.
They gushed - loudly and publicly - at the proofs.
They balked loudly but privately at the cost of the prints. $3.00 for a 4x6. Because it was for the arts council. Huge discount. They were thinking free. 50-100 prints free.
Arts council got the entire edited CD of shots for free. Sponsor? Sent us a nice check. After a polite, golly, so sorry, we've already deeply discounted for the cause...
And we have releases.
In fact, wherever we shoot, we often give away postcards of our work, like miniature posters on the front with the picture, title, our name and on the back with all our information. People are stunned - "I can have this?? Free?? Really???" I'm often asked to sign them and have been candidly told they were going to be framed. Terrific. All for it. My name and info and the nice talk we had will always be there when you're ready...
And they do remember.
The saddest thing to happen was our last show where we were a featured artist, sponsored 10x20 space, beautiful setup all pre-done for us. A lady shoplifted 2 note cards and scurried away. Really, ma'am, I would have given them to you. Free.
In the end, listen to Alain, do not undervalue your work. Set your price. Smile. Hand them a postcard with a cool shot of yours (even a shot of their pup) with your info and logo large on the back. Your subjects will hardly ever buy your pictures of them. (Their friends and family will... trust me) Get a release.
If you really want to do any kind of event photography, get a small event printer and download and print right there, at the moment and charge triple or more what you think is reasonable. They will pay you happily. And afford a coffee as well.
Sadly, for us, our biggest fans and followers are other photographers, art professors, art critics, and so on. Some serious people.
Ummm, guys? we love you and are just thrilled. Grateful. Truly flattered and humbled. Seriously.
I said it many years ago. I say it again. You aren't our market.
So, we'll just keep giving away the postcards and the occasional digital download.
But we will never, ever undersell. And you, dear subject, are never, ever, entitled.
I enjoyed reading your post. I can tell you have been "through the grinder" (so to speak). Direct sales are tough. But you are doing well, you have the right approach. Hang in there!
Alain
Posted by Garry Revesz on July 22, 2010 at 12:40 PM
Hi Alain,
Sorry for the belated follow up to your comments above on Value Pricing, I agree with you the VP for a single, or even a few prints is a futile effort. However, VP does work it's magic when both product and services are included in the package. For example, and this is a comment from Ed Kless, a VP guru and colleague of mine; "There seems to be a logic that calls for the options to be very distinct (read a wide range of prices) from each other rather than close in price. For example, if package A is $50 then package B must be $100 and package C should be $200. It clearly seems to send the buyer toward the middle package, plus they end up spending a few more bucks on additional prints." It's a simple but effective VP approach that I think many photographers should consider. I prefer to offer a set package for small(er) prints because it takes just as long to make 5 or 10 prints as it does 1. I don't want to spend my time processing, cropping, etc. to make 1 4x6 print. It's just not cost effective and the best use of my time. Obviously when you get into the larger print sizes like 8x10 and larger, there is usually a dialogue that takes place with the customer and the opportunity to create value for which you can charge accordingly.
Discussion
16 repliesRecently I rode to D.C. with a motorcycle group I belong too. I casually took pictures of the trip to include a couple and their dog that rode with us. Their dog drew alot of attention from the public because they have him dressed in a motorcycle outfit. I took a few shots of them and posted the pictures on my website, as I do for all of the trips or events we get envolved with.
When I do this, I do not set the pictures up for sale from the site. I download the pictures to show others what we do as a group. Plus, I do alot more to some of the pictures to dress them up or create special effects because I find it fun.
Well, this couple saw the pictures on my website I worked up of their dog and fell in love with the pics. The wife emailed me about what I would charge to print some pictures for them. I quoted them my prices from 13x19 down to 4x6. They said these pictures are by far the best they seen of their dog.
The wife emiled me back stating the $4.00 I wanted for a 4x6 was more than she wanted to pay.
That is why I get irritated. Most people do not know how much time and effort goes into processing a single picture let alone alot of them. Plus, the extra time a photographer puts into a photo when they do special effects. They would not get this type service from a standard photo processing business, most print what you take.
So, she did not order any prints. But, when you watch what people do spend money on without a second thought, like a $3.00 cup of coffee or in this case I saw them spend $6.00 on two small bottles of water which is gone within a few minutes. Yet, they do not stop and think that a $4.00 picture, taken care of, will last a lifetime and longer, is one heck of an investment and money well spent.
So, here is what I am going to this weekend, we are planning another trip to D.C. to the Arlington Memorial. I have printed off (5)different 4x6 pictures of them and their dog. I am going to give them these pictures for free, because I am that type of person! I usually do not do this.
Maybe I should not do this, but I will get some satisfation from it..and maybe, just maybe, they will develope a different way of thinking, or feel guilty and try to pay me for the pictures for which I will not except payment. I am not trying to cause trouble, but dagnabbit?
Maybe I am wrong, but I need to let off a little steam.
If any of you have encountered something similar or have a different viewpoint or ideas on how to handle or approach people with this thought process, I would like to hear about it.
Thanks for letting me vent!!
Posted is one of the pictures I did of their dog in CS4, it took about 2 hours to come up with an idea and to finish it after I found a flag to use for the background. $4.00 too much for a 4x6, I don't think so!!
I would have lost my lid... People will spend so much more on such ridiculous purchases (lotto tickets anyone??) as you pointed out. I think what you have chosen to do is a great route (there are several other options of course) and in the end they might purchase some more to give to friends and family. At least you are taking the high road AND getting the last word - not an easy accomplishment.
Hard to understand why she was such a cheapskate.
Many people just don't grasp how much time and money goes into producing an image like this.
Maybe a sign of our times, with so much uncertainty in the economy?
It may take another downturn, so people are getting really tight with any "disposable" income.
It's gotta be one of the oldest questions about "art"..how much is a customer willing to pay versus what you believe it's worth.
I always try to maintain a decent price for my work, in spite of pressure to reduce, and sometimes losing a sale. This applies to all endeavours, not only photography. Ongoing education is one key for customers to learn what ART is worth. Yet balanced by the realities of the market.
A good rant though!
Maybe educate her a bit advising her what does into your work, you are right most people dont see what it takes to make a great photo like the hours of editing it can take for a single image, or the fact that you were shooting all day just to get that 1 image, sure as a photographer it is what we love to do but it is something that takes a lot of work, and most people dont understand that...they just think you take the picture with your camera and put it on the internet....
I dont know but I feel your pain!!!
I would have felt great about spending $4 on a great pet portrait like this - and no $50 sitting fee! I refuse to spend $3 for a coffee or bottle of water.
Did she say anything about the great job blending with the background? If nothing else, that should have told her a little time and effort was spent here.
Cheers
You did a fantastic job on the "Pariotic Pup" portrait and you need to be compensated for it. However, I don't think this compensation will come from the dog owners. Here is why:
As several readers have already pointed out, it is not the price that this person ("the wife" as you say) objects to. $4 is nothing in today's world. It is a cup of coffee, a gallon and a half of gas, a gallon of milk and the cost of many other consumables that will be gone in minutes. On the other hand your photo will be there for a long time. It is not a consumable and it therefore falls into a totally different price category (more on this later).
What this person objects to is how the price is presented. By asking her to pay for it you are going against her expectations. My feeling is that she expects to get the photo for free. Since the difference between $4 and a gift is not financially meaningful, I suggest giving it to her as a gift. In return, ask for a model release so you can sell the photo to other clients later on. As Stan explains you do need a model release because the dog is not yours. This model release will cost you $4, a very small price to pay for “hiring” a model! Consider it the investment necessary to create this photograph.
I believe you will make much more money that way, certainly much more than $4. Also, forget about the principle of getting paid for your work and about explaining that photographs are a lot of work etc. etc. While these are legitimate concerns on your part, the buyer simply is not concerned with that. The buyer is only concerned with what they are getting from you. In that case this lady is not getting anything. She is feeling abused because you used her dog as a model and now want money from her. It is not the amount of money that bothers her. It is the principle of having to pay you for something which she feels should be given to her.
Clients buy because buying from you benefits them. Point these benefits to your clients and you will make sales. In this intance this lady does not see any benefits buying from you. Therefore she will not buy, not even if you dropped your price to a penny.
Finally, forget about that $4 price! A portrait, be it of a dog, a person, etc. is worth at the very least $50. Remember that it is easier to sell a $50 portrait than a $4 portrait because the higher you price your work the more you express pride for your work. $4 shows little pride. $50 shows a lot more pride. $500 shows a high level of pride. $5000 shows a very high level of pride. $50,000 shows an amazing level of pride. $500,000 shows an arrogantly high level of pride. $5,000,000 shows an unbelievably obscene level of pride!
Pride, in the eyes of your customers, means that they benefit from your skills as a photographer, your training, your vision and so on. This is how you express your skills, training and vision. You express them through your pricing, not by telling your clients that you worked hard on the photograph and expect to be compensated. You express all that by setting a price that reflects the fact that you worked hard and expect to be compensated! In other words, you do it nonverbally.
One of the main mistakes that photographers make when photographing someone's property, such as this dog, is to expect the owner to buy the photograph. In reality this hardly ever happens because unless the owner hired you for the shoot and paid you a shooting fee, they will want the photographs for free. This is true for cars, pets, children, real estate, etc. I fell prey to this false belief several times until I realized that the real clients are those who want to own the subject, or those who find the subject interesting. In other words, the real clients are those who do not own the subject. For them, buying the photograph is a way to “own” this subject, a way to live vicariously through the image.
As with many things related to success, the solution is between our two ears. Changing our thinking is what will change the outcome of our actions.
Thanks again!!
What people see is a piece of paper with an image on it. They don't see the camera, lenses, computer, software, printer, supplies and expertise it takes to put that image on the little piece of paper. "How much can that cost? ", "you're ripping me of!f", mentality. They have a camera of some sort and thus a knowledge of photography and being a photographer just isn't that hard in their view.
It's a very small percentage that are vocal about it in my business, but they can be very disruptive. I'm OK with saying "NO" to a sale and "thanks for looking". The polite ones just say "no thank you". The majority find our prices reasonable for the product they receive and continue to keep us shooting.
Gift it if you feel you need to, but don't feel bad about saying NO either.
Love the "Doggles"
Neil
I stopped charging by the hour a long time ago. I charged by the project once I determined the dimensions and the value of what the client wanted delivered, and ended up with much happier customers, lower costs, shorter time frames and much better profits. A win-win all around. It's called "value Pricing", and I plan on incorporating the concept into my photo business because the sooner you build it into your business model the easier it is to implement and the sooner your customers accept it.
I got involved with Value Pricing many years ago while in the IT industry and had the privilege of training with Ron Baker, the guru and father of the Value Pricing movement. His work has focused on the accounting, legal and technical industries, but the concepts apply to our market every bit a well. I have already contacted Ron about his ideas in applying the concept of Value Pricing for photographers. I'll keep you posted. If interested, you can check out his site at http://www.verasage.com/.
In the meantime, Alain and the others have very succinctly made some great popints, and the only thing I would add is that but all means give the lady the prints, but make sure your watermark is evident on the prints and people know how to contact you.
There's no doubt that value pricing works well for consulting and for projects involving delivery of prints to decorate an entire space, such as an entire home or office setting. In those instances a price point can be reached because both goods and work are involved.
I don't see however how it can work when selling a single print. In that case all that is involved is a product. No additional work is required on the part of the seller.
Of course you can certainly add a service, such as decor consulting, to the print delivery or choice. But then the question becomes about what minimum price point makes this approach worthwhile since work is required of you in addition to providing the piece(s).
In other words, value based pricing works great for services. It is not effective for products. At least I have not seen it successfully implemented for the sale of products yet.
Alain
Adorable shot!
All you really need to know is in Alain's first reply. Take it to heart.
I expected Hank Pennington to chime in as well and then the photo marketing world would rest balanced on its axis once more. Not being sarcastic - I mean it.
We run into this a lot. Just read and re-read Alain's post. (I learned a lot from his articles - well before he wrote for NPN)
Give a print to the owners. Get a release. Express pleasure and appreciation for the pup.
We primarily do gallery / fine art work. But...we also do a lot of event and sports work. My brother (and partner) does extreme kitesurfing freestyle and competition photography. He photographed a big tournament in the spring and it was amazing the number of competitors who emailed and said "just send all the full size shots of me to this email address" No please, no thank you, no kiss my ..., no hint of $$"
One parent, whose young son (10-11?) was competing for the first time, kept urging my brother to get more shots of the kid. Good looking kid, intense, photographed beautifully.
Brother processed gorgeous takes of the kid. Including a stunning B&W portrait conversion. Parent kept balking at the $15.00 for a 5x7 of the portrait.
Brother just kept smiling and saying, "I'm sorry. Your son is a wonderful subject and that is a favorite photo of mine from the tournament. It is a very reasonable price."
In the end the father ordered a print and we, in fact, included a bonus print of another wonderful shot of the kid.
No "thank you," no "got the print," "looks good," no nothing. No word or feedback at all.
That's the way it goes.
We should have charged more.
In the fall, I was to be a guest at an exclusive dinner for jazz musician greats, courtesy of an arts organization. Also a guest at the sold out concert the following evening.
Guess what? They ended up not having a photographer for either evening and last minute call "Lee, can you bring your camera?"
Guest to hired help in a flash.
Now the arts organization is great - sponsor and pay for our gallery expenses, pay for our booth and art show expenses, jury us in to just about everything. Happy to oblige them. They've been huge in pushing us forward against our will.
The outside sponsors, however, were a total pain. First - treated us like hired scum at the dinner (to which we'd been invited as guests), rudely barked a list of instructions the next night in the Hilton lobby before the concert. OK. Keep smiling.
They gushed - loudly and publicly - at finally having professionals to shoot the events.
They gushed - loudly and publicly - at the proofs.
They balked loudly but privately at the cost of the prints. $3.00 for a 4x6. Because it was for the arts council. Huge discount. They were thinking free. 50-100 prints free.
Arts council got the entire edited CD of shots for free. Sponsor? Sent us a nice check. After a polite, golly, so sorry, we've already deeply discounted for the cause...
And we have releases.
In fact, wherever we shoot, we often give away postcards of our work, like miniature posters on the front with the picture, title, our name and on the back with all our information. People are stunned - "I can have this?? Free?? Really???" I'm often asked to sign them and have been candidly told they were going to be framed. Terrific. All for it. My name and info and the nice talk we had will always be there when you're ready...
And they do remember.
The saddest thing to happen was our last show where we were a featured artist, sponsored 10x20 space, beautiful setup all pre-done for us. A lady shoplifted 2 note cards and scurried away. Really, ma'am, I would have given them to you. Free.
In the end, listen to Alain, do not undervalue your work. Set your price. Smile. Hand them a postcard with a cool shot of yours (even a shot of their pup) with your info and logo large on the back. Your subjects will hardly ever buy your pictures of them. (Their friends and family will... trust me) Get a release.
If you really want to do any kind of event photography, get a small event printer and download and print right there, at the moment and charge triple or more what you think is reasonable. They will pay you happily. And afford a coffee as well.
Sadly, for us, our biggest fans and followers are other photographers, art professors, art critics, and so on. Some serious people.
Ummm, guys? we love you and are just thrilled. Grateful. Truly flattered and humbled. Seriously.
I said it many years ago. I say it again. You aren't our market.
So, we'll just keep giving away the postcards and the occasional digital download.
But we will never, ever undersell. And you, dear subject, are never, ever, entitled.
Hang in there and stick to your guns, David.
It all works out.
Lee
I enjoyed reading your post. I can tell you have been "through the grinder" (so to speak). Direct sales are tough. But you are doing well, you have the right approach. Hang in there!
Alain
Sorry for the belated follow up to your comments above on Value Pricing, I agree with you the VP for a single, or even a few prints is a futile effort. However, VP does work it's magic when both product and services are included in the package. For example, and this is a comment from Ed Kless, a VP guru and colleague of mine; "There seems to be a logic that calls for the options to be very distinct (read a wide range of prices) from each other rather than close in price. For example, if package A is $50 then package B must be $100 and package C should be $200. It clearly seems to send the buyer toward the middle package, plus they end up spending a few more bucks on additional prints." It's a simple but effective VP approach that I think many photographers should consider. I prefer to offer a set package for small(er) prints because it takes just as long to make 5 or 10 prints as it does 1. I don't want to spend my time processing, cropping, etc. to make 1 4x6 print. It's just not cost effective and the best use of my time. Obviously when you get into the larger print sizes like 8x10 and larger, there is usually a dialogue that takes place with the customer and the opportunity to create value for which you can charge accordingly.
Garry