Posted by Glenn Starr on August 21, 2009 at 3:52 PM
Well, here I am again asking a question that has probably been asked numerous times before, but, will I, or my audience, really be able to tell the difference if I used Lee vs Singh-Ray Grads? I know enough that Conkin Grads have been problematic since they are not truly neutral density. From the research that I have done it would appear that Lee Grads do not add a color case but are truly neutral. So assuming that this is not the difference between the two, does Singh-Ray resins and filter quality maintain more of the optical qualities of the very expensive Nikon Pro Glass that I own?
Any thoughts would be most welcome, even including "how many times do we need to see this question?"
Posted by Joe O'Hara on August 21, 2009 at 5:18 PM
As far as I know both Lee and Singh-Ray filters are considered top quality by most users (I use the Lee 100x150mm ND grads). Now, being resin filters, they are not coated. All other things equal, a coated (glass) filter should produce less flare in extreme situations. Also, some users consider glass filters (e.g., B+W) to be more durable than polyester resin, which seems reasonable. So, if you're really worried about maximum optical quality, you may want to consider a coated glass solution. (Having said this, it is also true that among my many failed photographs, I can't find any that failed because my ND grad wasn't coated.)
Posted by Mark Stahlke on August 21, 2009 at 5:30 PM
I have both systems. I use Lee filters in 4x6 size and Singh-Ray in the Cokin P size. This quick snapshot shows 2 stop soft edge filters on a light box.
On the light box they look very different. In actual use I don't notice any difference in the color or clarity between these two manufacturers. I also compared the density using a spot meter and both filter systems are quite accurate. You can use either system with complete confidence.
I've used both systems and don't see any differences in real world use. I like the cases of the Singh Ray filters better. The Lee filters use a velcro closure, and I've scratched the filters sliding them past the velcro- kind of an annoying design flaw.
Posted by Glenn Starr on August 22, 2009 at 6:58 PM
Thanks much for all the info everybody! Since my next purchase is the Nikon 17-35 f/2.8 on my D700 I need to go with the 4x6 filters. Real big difference in price and would rather have a little variety for now, 2 and 3 stop hard and soft. Live on the beach and shoot the mountains as well.
Glenn
Posted by Tim parkin on August 23, 2009 at 7:21 AM
@Glenn - From my research (http://www.timparkin.co.uk/blog/grads) Lee filters are definitely more neutral although they tend to 'warm' when you get to 3stops or more. The three singh ray filters I have definitely suffer from a slight blue cast (with a hint of green). The picture that mark posted seems to confirm this. As far as quality is concerned, the Lee filters are thicker and don't have as much tendency to show small surface scratches (but both Singh Ray and Lee are miles better than Cokin or Hitech).
@Michael - I don't know what 'velcro' closure you refer to for Lee filters. The foundation kit attaches using a bevelled ring and the filters slide in to the holder with tension kept by 'bowed' plastic strips at the very end of the slot. These do scratch the filters but the area where they get scratches is hidden by the holder anyway.
The lee filters are supplied in the UK either in tissue (and you can buy a case for them separately) or in a soft lint free sleeve.
The singh ray cases are very nice but are too thick to carry more than three or four (the case is about 4 times the thickness of the grad). I cannibalise a Lee 10 filter pouch for it's innards as seen at the bottom of this blog post.. http://www.timparkin.co.uk/blog/764021813161088786 I can carry 12 lee filters in only two inches of thickness.
I was speaking to Joe Cornish - who is playing around with a P45+ digital back recently - and he's using the diffuser supplied with the back to make a photograph that corrects for colour casts caused by high angular incidence of light rays and lens coatings. Once you have taken one of these frames, you load it into capture one and it corrects for the colour cast. Interestingly, he also leaves his grad on when he does this and capture one then corrects for the grad colour cast too! And we checked to see how much difference the small, warm cast caused by Lee makes and, although you wouldn't notice it was there in the original, when it's corrected you can definitely tell the difference... This may be an interesting test to try out if you are worried about the colour cast of your grads?
Let me preface my remarks by saying; ND Grads are evil!
The reason I say this is, is on a view camera it is very difficult to see the transition; especially with a soft grad. So, I try to use the light I have to my advantage. If I can't, I will wait until I can. Consequently, I don't use them very often.
I do have a set of Singh-Ray grads; 2 and 3 stop soft, and a 3-stop hard. The quality is excellent. Mine are several years old and do reveal some very small and insignificant scratches. I am very careful to keep them, and their cases, clean.
I also have a Lee compendium shade with filter slots (I found it hanging in a bush in Lundy Canyon a few years ago!). I'd consider a set of 100mm Lee's (or Singh-Ray) if their purchase price was reasonable. So, for time being, I'll stick with my Cokin-P size grads.
Discussion
6 repliesAny thoughts would be most welcome, even including "how many times do we need to see this question?"
On the light box they look very different. In actual use I don't notice any difference in the color or clarity between these two manufacturers. I also compared the density using a spot meter and both filter systems are quite accurate. You can use either system with complete confidence.
Cheers.
Glenn
@Michael - I don't know what 'velcro' closure you refer to for Lee filters. The foundation kit attaches using a bevelled ring and the filters slide in to the holder with tension kept by 'bowed' plastic strips at the very end of the slot. These do scratch the filters but the area where they get scratches is hidden by the holder anyway.
The lee filters are supplied in the UK either in tissue (and you can buy a case for them separately) or in a soft lint free sleeve.
The singh ray cases are very nice but are too thick to carry more than three or four (the case is about 4 times the thickness of the grad). I cannibalise a Lee 10 filter pouch for it's innards as seen at the bottom of this blog post.. http://www.timparkin.co.uk/blog/764021813161088786 I can carry 12 lee filters in only two inches of thickness.
I was speaking to Joe Cornish - who is playing around with a P45+ digital back recently - and he's using the diffuser supplied with the back to make a photograph that corrects for colour casts caused by high angular incidence of light rays and lens coatings. Once you have taken one of these frames, you load it into capture one and it corrects for the colour cast. Interestingly, he also leaves his grad on when he does this and capture one then corrects for the grad colour cast too! And we checked to see how much difference the small, warm cast caused by Lee makes and, although you wouldn't notice it was there in the original, when it's corrected you can definitely tell the difference... This may be an interesting test to try out if you are worried about the colour cast of your grads?
The reason I say this is, is on a view camera it is very difficult to see the transition; especially with a soft grad. So, I try to use the light I have to my advantage. If I can't, I will wait until I can. Consequently, I don't use them very often.
I do have a set of Singh-Ray grads; 2 and 3 stop soft, and a 3-stop hard. The quality is excellent. Mine are several years old and do reveal some very small and insignificant scratches. I am very careful to keep them, and their cases, clean.
I also have a Lee compendium shade with filter slots (I found it hanging in a bush in Lundy Canyon a few years ago!). I'd consider a set of 100mm Lee's (or Singh-Ray) if their purchase price was reasonable. So, for time being, I'll stick with my Cokin-P size grads.
-P