Posted by mark miller on October 23, 2007 at 11:05 PM
An opinion I have is that the big hazard in Ye3lowstone and elsewhere, is not the wild animals that reside there, but the idiotic drivers that pass through. I have been around all the big, wild and dangerous critters in the US- grizzlies, mountain lions, wolves, etc. Simply respect there space and there is seldom if ever a problem. However, what gets entirely overlooked is the hazardous driver. Just this morning I got nearly sideswipped by a driver who felt he needed to teach me a lesson while I was pulled over to the side of the road looking at wildlife of all things. Trailing him out of the Park and confronting him, it was obvious he disagreed with this practice (you know, pulling over for wildlife observing in Yellowstone of all things), as his intent was evacuating the Park as soon as possible. There was more tangible danger there than in a thousand encounters with bears or wolves. I think our culture has things way out of perspective regarding relative risks, and this is partly due to the sensationalism our media gives to the rare animal attacks on people (the innate fear of fangs and claws). For every incident where an animal injures or kills a person, there are about a 100,000 or more auto accidents that are mostly ignored. A couple of years ago, there was a truck driver who regularly commuted through Yellowstone in the winter. He would see the photographers and wolf watchers on the shoulder of the road toeing the white line, and he would make a point of barreling right at you to make sure you moved, or got hit. Not a very nice practice on icy roads. Incidents like these indicate to me that wild animals are unduly recieving the brunt of our fears, and paying for it dearly in our culture, when the reality is some of the (expletive deleted) drivers are the real hazards.
Posted by Kim Kaiser on October 23, 2007 at 11:50 PM
to quote a president i despise,, "i feel your pain" espcially in the winter,,,where are the rangers when you reall need um
was the driver someone we know?? howz the house coming,,
Posted by Dan Borzynski on October 24, 2007 at 12:25 AM
A few years ago, I was shooting in Cades Cove, just off the road. It was in the back along the steepest section of the road - if you have driven the road, you know where I was standing AND that it is pretty rare that anyone actually drives the speed limit (what's that? I vague remember those words...)
Anyway, this idiot comes barreling down the road and sees me off the side photographing something. Never mind that the camera is pointing straight down at the ground. Just ignore the fact that he is speeding, on a steep road, and that his buddy is tailgating him. RRRRRRR! He slams on the brakes, almost going off the road, almost causing the car behind him to rear end him, much less taking me out (keep in mind that I am NOT on the road and what should have been a safe distance from it). He gets out all excited. What are you photographing? Is it a bear? Where?!! Where?!!
Once he realizes that it is one of the nicest patches of crested dwarf irises I had seen in about a week, he stomps back to his car, and mutters unders his breath "It one of those f******* flower freaks!"
I view it as the same issue as to why talking on cell phones while driving, the rolling right on red, not using turn signals, etc are all considered safe driving skills. You are more important than basic safety. No other reason.
Posted by Steve Foss on October 24, 2007 at 8:13 AM
It's the same up here, but to a lesser degree.
I've narrowly been missed before during grouse season while photographing grouse along the side of the road. Twice, irate hunters swerved over across the gravel to play chicken, apparently because I was interfering with their road hunting. In both cases I just quickly covered my camera to keep the dust off and waved at them. I don't think they noticed that my friendly smile and wave were contradicted by the fact that I was only waving one finger.
I've also had people pull over pretty often if I was photographing something from the side of the road with a telephoto. Certainly they were hoping to get in on a wolf or a moose sighting. It's irritating, of course, but shooting alongside roads will yield a fair amount of that behavior. Just a human nature deal.
To fix the problem, I just pull over, park and walk into the woods to do my work. Things are better in there than along the road, anyway, and half the reason I go "out there" is to get away from all the people.
I agree that people are more dangerous than other animal species. I'll be far more likely to pull out the bear-strength pepper spray to ward off an aggressive human animal than a bear or a wolf.
Posted by mark miller on October 24, 2007 at 9:45 AM
thanks for the responses- which help mitigate some anger here. The driver just finished seaonal work in the park as a concessionaire, and was in a big hurry to evacuate. He certainly deserved a few blasts of bear spray (that stuff is potent!), but prudence tells me just to file a complaint. The rangers provide a lot more service behind the scenes that goes unnoticed.
Posted by mark miller on October 24, 2007 at 9:46 AM
thanks for the responses- which help mitigate some anger here. The driver just finished seaonal work in the park as a concessionaire, and was in a big hurry to evacuate. He certainly deserved a few blasts of bear spray (that stuff is potent!), but prudence tells me just to file a complaint. The rangers provide a lot more service behind the scenes that goes unnoticed.
Posted by Leann Greene on October 24, 2007 at 12:25 PM
I live close to the Blue Ridge Parkway which is obviously a scenic roadway and there are residents who travel stretches of it to get to main roads but mostly it is visitors driving on it and no commercial vehicles allowed. The speed limit varies from 45 mph to 35 mph and even at only 35mph you miss alot trying to drive and look so I don't get it when people are trying to play kissy bumpers -if you're in that big of a hurry GET OFF THE PARKWAY
Posted by Bob Steele on October 24, 2007 at 1:28 PM
Because of the nature of this discussion, I'm moving it to the Hot Topics forum.
Carry on...
Posted by Ed Cordes on October 24, 2007 at 1:36 PM
The human animals are always more dangerous and stupid than the non human animals!
Posted by Stan Rose on October 28, 2007 at 7:37 PM
While i definitely agree that rapid drivers pose a much greater threat than the wild animals, there is a flip side in that the folks (often photographers) on the side of the road often create much danger, as well as being a major nuisance. For example, driving through Rocky Mtn Ntl park a couple weeks ago, i couldn't believe the shear numbers of morons (many with telephoto lenses) half parked in the middle of the road, trampling in large droves across fragile meadows so they could get as close to the elk as they could. I really felt for the elk, harrassed all day long by these bozos.
Posted by Steve Foss on October 28, 2007 at 9:47 PM
Not to mention the plants, which are probably still crushed, trampled and bleeding green. Elk can run away.
Posted by mark miller on October 31, 2007 at 7:07 PM
<<..there is a flip side in that the folks (often photographers) on the side of the road often create much danger, as well as being a major nuisance...>>
Oh yes, of course, that goes as well. I've come across cars on behind blind curves in the middle of icy winter roads, and the photographers are a hundred yards away. That's crazy and these drivers should be fined. But still, even in these cases, other drivers have no right to threaten them, no matter how ridiculous.. The privilege to drive stipulates that regardless of who has the right of way, drivers must do their best to avoid potential hazards, and especially not try create them
Posted by William Vrolyk on November 8, 2007 at 12:44 AM
Mark, the best policy is to avoid confronting such individuals (they could be dangerous) and try to get the license plate number of their vehicle and take your complaints to the authorities. Use your camera to help identify their vehicle if possible. Visualizing the police coming to the offender's door and maybe hauling him away in handcuffs should be some satisfaction for you.
Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
Posted by Kris Kennedy on November 9, 2007 at 8:49 AM
Mark, I know exactly what you mean. I used to live near Yellowstone and have also visited there many times. I have never had a problem with an animal but I've had many problems with people/drivers.
The last time I was there I saw many violations of the park rules but there were NO rangers to be found in the park. When I was leaving the park I found the rangers. They were all at a restaurant in Gardiner.
Most of the people drive way too fast through the park and most of the vacationers who go there are in a big hurry to get through the place and then onto Disneyland. The locals see the tourists as a nuisance and only want their money. The locals are also a bunch of gun toting rednecks who think the park should be opened for hunting and other destructive pursuits. To them, photographers are a bunch of sissies who don't have a clue.
Animals are killed regularly in Yellowstone by idiotic drivers who are going way too fast.
A couple of things would help the situation. Heavy fines for speeding and other reckless driving, and a wide shoulder built onto the roads to provide people a safer place to pull over when observing or photographing wildlife. A wide shoulder would also give the animals a better margin of safety when walking along a road.
The wolves have attracted a lot more people to Yellowstone and of course that also brings more problems. I can remember being able to escape the crowds by going to the north east area of the park. Since that's where most of the wolves are, there are tons of people in that area now too.
All in all, my biggest gripe is the Harleys that roar constantly through the park during summer. It's rare to have a moment of peace with those loud, obnoxious motorcycles numbering in the thousands. Noise laws, for all vehicles, should be implimented and strictly enforced throughout Yellowstone and all other national parks.
Discussion
13 replieswas the driver someone we know?? howz the house coming,,
Anyway, this idiot comes barreling down the road and sees me off the side photographing something. Never mind that the camera is pointing straight down at the ground. Just ignore the fact that he is speeding, on a steep road, and that his buddy is tailgating him. RRRRRRR! He slams on the brakes, almost going off the road, almost causing the car behind him to rear end him, much less taking me out (keep in mind that I am NOT on the road and what should have been a safe distance from it). He gets out all excited. What are you photographing? Is it a bear? Where?!! Where?!!
Once he realizes that it is one of the nicest patches of crested dwarf irises I had seen in about a week, he stomps back to his car, and mutters unders his breath "It one of those f******* flower freaks!"
I view it as the same issue as to why talking on cell phones while driving, the rolling right on red, not using turn signals, etc are all considered safe driving skills. You are more important than basic safety. No other reason.
I've narrowly been missed before during grouse season while photographing grouse along the side of the road. Twice, irate hunters swerved over across the gravel to play chicken, apparently because I was interfering with their road hunting. In both cases I just quickly covered my camera to keep the dust off and waved at them. I don't think they noticed that my friendly smile and wave were contradicted by the fact that I was only waving one finger.
I've also had people pull over pretty often if I was photographing something from the side of the road with a telephoto. Certainly they were hoping to get in on a wolf or a moose sighting. It's irritating, of course, but shooting alongside roads will yield a fair amount of that behavior. Just a human nature deal.
To fix the problem, I just pull over, park and walk into the woods to do my work. Things are better in there than along the road, anyway, and half the reason I go "out there" is to get away from all the people.
I agree that people are more dangerous than other animal species. I'll be far more likely to pull out the bear-strength pepper spray to ward off an aggressive human animal than a bear or a wolf.
Carry on...
Oh yes, of course, that goes as well. I've come across cars on behind blind curves in the middle of icy winter roads, and the photographers are a hundred yards away. That's crazy and these drivers should be fined. But still, even in these cases, other drivers have no right to threaten them, no matter how ridiculous.. The privilege to drive stipulates that regardless of who has the right of way, drivers must do their best to avoid potential hazards, and especially not try create them
Will
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada
The last time I was there I saw many violations of the park rules but there were NO rangers to be found in the park. When I was leaving the park I found the rangers. They were all at a restaurant in Gardiner.
Most of the people drive way too fast through the park and most of the vacationers who go there are in a big hurry to get through the place and then onto Disneyland. The locals see the tourists as a nuisance and only want their money. The locals are also a bunch of gun toting rednecks who think the park should be opened for hunting and other destructive pursuits. To them, photographers are a bunch of sissies who don't have a clue.
Animals are killed regularly in Yellowstone by idiotic drivers who are going way too fast.
A couple of things would help the situation. Heavy fines for speeding and other reckless driving, and a wide shoulder built onto the roads to provide people a safer place to pull over when observing or photographing wildlife. A wide shoulder would also give the animals a better margin of safety when walking along a road.
The wolves have attracted a lot more people to Yellowstone and of course that also brings more problems. I can remember being able to escape the crowds by going to the north east area of the park. Since that's where most of the wolves are, there are tons of people in that area now too.
All in all, my biggest gripe is the Harleys that roar constantly through the park during summer. It's rare to have a moment of peace with those loud, obnoxious motorcycles numbering in the thousands. Noise laws, for all vehicles, should be implimented and strictly enforced throughout Yellowstone and all other national parks.