I'm having a real problem printing certain types of images and would be extremely grateful for any advice on how to solve it.
Basically I'm having problems printing certain shades of green and brown without losing fine detail.Being primarily interested in nature photography this is obviously a major problem.
The issues I'm having are most evident on subjects such as detailed folliage,short grass,animal fur,human skin tones,etc.
These subjects look beautifully crisp and detailed on screen but the subtle graduations in tone and fine detail often result in losing a lot of the fine detail when printed,and basically looking like a 'mush' of colour (for want of a better word)
I'm using a Gretag Macbeth calibrated screen and printing on an Epson Stylus Photo 1290S from Photoshop CS2.
I use genuine Epson inks and paper type is either Epson Premium Glossy,Epson Semi-Gloss,Epson Heavyweight Matt,Ilford Gallerie Smooth Gloss or Ilford Gallerie Smooth Pearl.
The images colour space is always Adobe RGB.
The screen to print match is very good and I have no issues with this side of things whatsoever.
The workflow I use consists of usually just a levels adjustment,low saturation increase,possibly curves and the usual dust-spotting,etc.
Everything is fine up to this point and I'm happy with the image so I save it as a PSD master file.
My issue now occurs when I select the appropriate paper type and soft proof the image in preperation for printing,this is the point when a lot of fine detail ends up merging into a bit of a 'mess'
I duplicate the image,to have an image to compare and try and improve the original with a new curves adjustment layer,usually with varying degrees of success.
HELP!
Is anyone familiar with this problem? and more importantly how do you solve it??
What adjustments do you find yourself making to get the Soft Proofed version looking as good as the original?
Any advice on this issue would be really appreciated.
Thanks
Posted by Guy Tal on September 18, 2006 at 2:15 PM
Justin, when you set up your soft proof, you can use Photoshop's gamut warning to identify areas that are outside your target profile. You can then adjust the image by targeting specific colors (by changing tone, saturation etc.) until they fit within your paper's gamut.
Either way - profiles will never give you a perfect match. The differences between transmissive and reflective media, and specific qualities of each paper can't always be accounted for in the ICC profile and you may need to adjust things manually.
Thanks for your help.
The problem isn't actually with the colours but more of a drastic loss in contrast which is resulting in an apparant loss of detail,which as you say is due to the difference between the screen and prints contrast.
Do you yourself tend to soft proof every image prior to printing and could you give me an idea as to what adjustments you generally have to make prior to printing (after you turn on soft proof),and using what method.
I appreciate your help.
Posted by Guy Tal on September 18, 2006 at 5:02 PM
Justin,
I usually start with a test print to see if there are any obvious differences or loss of important detail. If I notice colorspace related issues I turn on soft proofing and gamut warning and experiment with different convertion intents. Relative Colorimetric will usually remap (or compress) all colors not in the target space, which sounds like the effect you're seeing. Sometimes switching to Perceptual will resolve the issue (although may introduce other inconsistencies).
If this approach fails, I try to selectively work on the colors that are out of gamut. Usually a change in saturation or slight darkening/lightening will bring them into the target space.
The apparant loss of detail generally occurs in the midtone areas.I havn't noticed the problem in the highlight or shadow areas.
I usually most notice the problem when printing on Epson Premium Gloss paper and on the Matt paper (although I only have limited experience with using the Matt so far).
I use a Mitsubishi Diaond Pro CRT monitor and I calibrate it reguarly using a Gretag Macbeth EyeOne Dissplay 2.
I posted the same question over in the regional forum HERE and thanks to some excellent advice given think I may have cracked the problem.
However if you think of anything I may have over-looked please let me know.
Thanks
Posted by Timothy Farrar on September 19, 2006 at 8:47 AM
Justin, interesting. Having midtone color problems is strange indeed, expecially on glossy paper. If it was mainly a problem in the darks then I would have had a good answer for you. Good luck!
Justin: I do not have time to read the other thread, but I would suspect your output profile. Do you use a canned/generic profile? If so, I would definitely suggest getting a custom profile. It sounds like you know what you're doing, and if gamut is not the issue and you have a consistent problem with specific color/tone, then I would definitely suspect your output profile. Generic profiles for consumer/prosumer printers are notoriously generic
Good luck.
Posted by Justin on September 19, 2006 at 12:49 PM
Thanks Michael,
I am indeed using generic profiles,I didn't at the time I purchased the printer really feel the need for custom profiles as the generic ones appeared to give a satisfactory screen to print match,however 18months later as I've become more involved and interested in the printing process,I guess I need to re-evaluate my needs and perhaps shell out for some specific custom profiles if I'm to progress further.
Discussion
12 repliesI'm having a real problem printing certain types of images and would be extremely grateful for any advice on how to solve it.
Basically I'm having problems printing certain shades of green and brown without losing fine detail.Being primarily interested in nature photography this is obviously a major problem.
The issues I'm having are most evident on subjects such as detailed folliage,short grass,animal fur,human skin tones,etc.
These subjects look beautifully crisp and detailed on screen but the subtle graduations in tone and fine detail often result in losing a lot of the fine detail when printed,and basically looking like a 'mush' of colour (for want of a better word)
I'm using a Gretag Macbeth calibrated screen and printing on an Epson Stylus Photo 1290S from Photoshop CS2.
I use genuine Epson inks and paper type is either Epson Premium Glossy,Epson Semi-Gloss,Epson Heavyweight Matt,Ilford Gallerie Smooth Gloss or Ilford Gallerie Smooth Pearl.
The images colour space is always Adobe RGB.
The screen to print match is very good and I have no issues with this side of things whatsoever.
The workflow I use consists of usually just a levels adjustment,low saturation increase,possibly curves and the usual dust-spotting,etc.
Everything is fine up to this point and I'm happy with the image so I save it as a PSD master file.
My issue now occurs when I select the appropriate paper type and soft proof the image in preperation for printing,this is the point when a lot of fine detail ends up merging into a bit of a 'mess'
I duplicate the image,to have an image to compare and try and improve the original with a new curves adjustment layer,usually with varying degrees of success.
HELP!
Is anyone familiar with this problem? and more importantly how do you solve it??
What adjustments do you find yourself making to get the Soft Proofed version looking as good as the original?
Any advice on this issue would be really appreciated.
Thanks
Either way - profiles will never give you a perfect match. The differences between transmissive and reflective media, and specific qualities of each paper can't always be accounted for in the ICC profile and you may need to adjust things manually.
Guy
Thanks for your help.
The problem isn't actually with the colours but more of a drastic loss in contrast which is resulting in an apparant loss of detail,which as you say is due to the difference between the screen and prints contrast.
Do you yourself tend to soft proof every image prior to printing and could you give me an idea as to what adjustments you generally have to make prior to printing (after you turn on soft proof),and using what method.
I appreciate your help.
Justin,
I usually start with a test print to see if there are any obvious differences or loss of important detail. If I notice colorspace related issues I turn on soft proofing and gamut warning and experiment with different convertion intents. Relative Colorimetric will usually remap (or compress) all colors not in the target space, which sounds like the effect you're seeing. Sometimes switching to Perceptual will resolve the issue (although may introduce other inconsistencies).
If this approach fails, I try to selectively work on the colors that are out of gamut. Usually a change in saturation or slight darkening/lightening will bring them into the target space.
Guy
Just forgetting the images colours for a moment,do you often find yourself having to make contrast adjustments after soft-proofing?
Guy
Do you only see the problem printing on Matte paper, or do you also see the problem printing on Premium Glossy Paper?
And lastly, do you have a calibrated CRT or LCD and if an LCD what is the brightness of the screen (cd/m^2)?
I may know exactly the problem that you are experiencing...
The apparant loss of detail generally occurs in the midtone areas.I havn't noticed the problem in the highlight or shadow areas.
I usually most notice the problem when printing on Epson Premium Gloss paper and on the Matt paper (although I only have limited experience with using the Matt so far).
I use a Mitsubishi Diaond Pro CRT monitor and I calibrate it reguarly using a Gretag Macbeth EyeOne Dissplay 2.
I posted the same question over in the regional forum HERE and thanks to some excellent advice given think I may have cracked the problem.
However if you think of anything I may have over-looked please let me know.
Thanks
Good luck.
I am indeed using generic profiles,I didn't at the time I purchased the printer really feel the need for custom profiles as the generic ones appeared to give a satisfactory screen to print match,however 18months later as I've become more involved and interested in the printing process,I guess I need to re-evaluate my needs and perhaps shell out for some specific custom profiles if I'm to progress further.
I appreciate your input,thanks.