Posted by Mat Malone on September 28, 2009 at 3:29 PM
Hey all,
After a weekend hike up to the top of Half Dome, I'm thinking about investing in a better P&S camera. This Saturday I used my wife's old Panasonic, but it really butchers colors like you wouldn't believe, and doesn't have many manual settings. I'd like to have a camera for as an easy access camera while backpacking, strenuous hikes/mountaineering, skiing/snowboarding, or other activities where photography isn't the primary purpose. This class of camera definitely isn't what I'd normally expect to see discussed here, but I wouldn't be surprised if others have looked for something similar. I'm looking for a camera that's light, compact, versatile and has decent picture quality.
Specifically here's what I'm looking for:
*Decent wide-angle zoom lens (less than 30mm equivalent)
*Weighs about half a pound
*RAW mode
*IS
*Built-in flash (I might occasionally want to use at a party)
*Manual functionality similar to an SLR (aperture priority, manual ISO, etc)
*Less than $400 USD.
The Canon SD980 fits most of those, but it looks like it doesn't shoot RAW, and I'm not sure I can live without that. Anyone have any recommendations? Thanks for your help!
Posted by Luke Ormand on September 28, 2009 at 4:12 PM
I don't think you are going to find RAW in a non-prosumer camera (and by prosumer I mean those big clunky P&S cameras that have pretty much everything but interchangable lenses). I used to use an Olympus prosumer at my last job and with the manual controls you can do pretty well - especially with the macro ability, but the bulkiness of it makes it impractical to use. If you end up going with a slim P&S I'd recommend something where the zoom is housed internally. I've known too many people who have dropped their cam and had the zoom lens become stuck/impacted/broken and rendered the camera useless.
Posted by Mat Malone on September 28, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Yeah I'm afraid RAW might be a tough requirement, since I want something smaller than a Canon G10.
Posted by John Mumaw on September 28, 2009 at 6:26 PM
The new G11 is right up your alley.
It's not that much bigger than a p&s and the sample images I've seen from it using higher ISO speeds are nothing short of amazing. The G11 also has an optical viewfinder, which is getting harder and harder to find.
I would trade the ability to shoot RAW along with usable higher ISO speeds for a slightly larger camera in a heartbeat!
Posted by Mat Malone on September 28, 2009 at 7:44 PM
G11 was what I was originally thinking, but I think it's a little too bulky for what I'm looking for.
Actually the S90 looks perfect... except for the price Oh well what else is new? Maybe there will be a price drop fairly soon.
Thanks for the suggestions!
Posted by Buck Ward on September 28, 2009 at 8:21 PM
Mat
The SD series of cameras are fine little point-n-shooters. I've had a couple - I have one in my pocket. But they are nowhere close to a backup for an SLR.
I while back I bought a highly-rated superzoom digicam to use as a convenient substitute for and occasional backup for a DSLR. It was a pretty good camera to have around your neck at a theme park with children, but I gradually grew dissatisfied with it finally gave it away. Too big to be pocketable and not capable of the degree of control I was accustomed to.
Have you thought about the burgeoning group of micro four-thirds format cameras? Rangefinder style cameras with interchangeable lenses, larger than most P&S digicams. I don't know much about them, but they intrigue me.
Posted by Peter Barnes on September 29, 2009 at 4:37 AM
Matt, have you looked at the Panasonic LX3 - seems to be highly regarded, shoots RAW, 9.3oz & 1.1inches thick. And if you go to http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp and choose RAW and <=12oz as criteria you will get 10 cameras, surprisingly no Canons among them. (there are none under 7oz which is the next weight category down.)
Posted by John Rivard on September 29, 2009 at 5:42 AM
I bought a Canon G10 several weeks ago for just the reasons you have stated. I have been very happy with it - great quality files, easy manual shooting, RAW, takes shoe flashes, etc... Not much bigger or heavier than the A640 I had previously, but that one got stolen. The G10 won't fit in a normal shirt pocket but fits a cargo pocket in pants or shorts with no problem. I love the on-screen grid for landscapes and the IS works well. 28mm at the short end of the zoom and good macro when needed. The only real change I see in the G11 is the swiveling LCD, which I liked on the A640 but have not really missed yet on the G10. I plan to get an underwater housing for it soon.
Posted by David Chauvin on September 29, 2009 at 1:09 PM
Take a look at the Ricoh GX-100 or GX-200. The size, weight and RAW capability are just what you want. The price on the GX-200 is a bit more than you want to spend. I own the GX-100 (picked it up used at a very good price on ebay) and the image quality at low ISO's is fine. Like all p&s cameras it has it's quirks but the controls that photographers use most (shutter speed, aperture and exposure comp) are easy to reach and intuitive to use.
Posted by John W. Wall on September 29, 2009 at 3:34 PM
I've been using a Panasonic FZ28 which fits in a small pouch I can carry on my chest strap, loose in a fanny pack, or just in my hand. I recently brought it with me even though I was also carrying my DSLR. Sometimes I just wanted the grab shot. Downsides are the bulky shape, the EVF, the too-loose diopter adjuster, and slow write-speed. You won't get two chances to shoot a moving object -- it'll be gone by the time the image writes to the card. It's nice to have the 18X superzoom for critters. Not a fun camera to use, but the images are pretty good.
Posted by Darren Huski on September 29, 2009 at 8:11 PM
Matt, I'll second the LX-3 as a great camera for exactly what you are looking for. I had kicked around the same idea for a compact but never got one. Then hiking the Zion Narrows I wanted to kick myself for not having one. While I would not consider a $2000 DSLR kit dangling from my neck while wading the Narrows a P+S seems a natural choice. Its light and ideal for quick use.
I often walk the dogs or go for a walk in the park and even the XTI with Tamron seems big. The LX-3 is perfectly sized.
10mp
RAW
24-60 lens and that is a 2.0 to 2.8
Built in IS
720p movies
1cm macro focus
Really just a nice pocket cam. And that 24mm f/2.0 Leica lens is sweet.
Note it is still a p+s. Focus is slower than a dslr, but quick for a p+s. IQ is below the XTI but I think they are still quite nice. The IQ upto iso 200 is very good and iso 400-1600 have very film like qualities to the grain. It also doe s a great in camera B+W. I often use it with RAW +JPG with the jpg set on the dynamic B+W and really like them.
Another way I look at is in a situation I'd have the 50D or XTi and the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 where I might be at ISO 1600 and f/2.8 I can be with the LX-3 at f/2.0 at iso 200 or 320 since the faster lens and built in IS really help. So I might actually get a better pic with the LX-3 in that low light handholding situation.
Great camera as a compliment to a DSLR kit and ideal as a take it everywhere model. I never leave home without it.
Now you need to watch for it being in stock as it is a cult classic. Check:
If you can find a LX-3, I'd say get it. I have the Leica version (the D-LUX 4) and used it on a 2-week trek through western Ireland and loved it! Both the LX-3 and the D-LUX 4 share the same body and much of the same processing functions, and both capture RAW. The controls are well-thought-out; I like the controls and menus better than the Powershot G9 I used to have, and the D-LUX4 is a nice sized, pocketable camera.
Posted by Austin Booth on October 5, 2009 at 1:56 PM
I don't know about the SD980 I don't think it has manual controls, I know for sure it doesn't have aperture priority or shutter priority. You can always use the CHDK hack for canon cameras to add raw capability to it although its a little more work.
You put it on your SD card and it loads into memory so it doesn't override your camera's firmware so as soon as you switch the camera off its gone. The downfall is you have to start your camera in playback mode and load it up by selecting the firmware update option in the menu every time you turn on your camera so it isn't good for turning on quickly for spontaneous shots but you can always shoot jpeg for those. The other downfall is you have to convert the file to DNG with external software before you can use the raw file and it always shoots a jpeg along with the raw no matter what so it uses more card space. So its not for everyone but I didn't have a lot of money so I picked up and old A540 which has full manual controls for $50 and hacked it to add raw capability and so far its worked out great, I shoot jpeg most of the time but if I need raw for slightly more serious work and don't have my DSLR with me I have the option to turn it on.
If you don't want to deal with the hastle and want raw as soon as you start up everytime and not have to convert it to DNG first then there are several other options out there. As far as current models go from Canon there is the G11 (or G10 if you want to save a couple bucks) and the more compact s90. The Panasonic Lumix LX-3 has received great reviews and is also more compact than the G series canon cameras.
If you want to save a little cash you could look at older models like the Lumix LX-2, G9 or Nikon P5000.
Discussion
13 repliesAfter a weekend hike up to the top of Half Dome, I'm thinking about investing in a better P&S camera. This Saturday I used my wife's old Panasonic, but it really butchers colors like you wouldn't believe, and doesn't have many manual settings. I'd like to have a camera for as an easy access camera while backpacking, strenuous hikes/mountaineering, skiing/snowboarding, or other activities where photography isn't the primary purpose. This class of camera definitely isn't what I'd normally expect to see discussed here, but I wouldn't be surprised if others have looked for something similar. I'm looking for a camera that's light, compact, versatile and has decent picture quality.
Specifically here's what I'm looking for:
*Decent wide-angle zoom lens (less than 30mm equivalent)
*Weighs about half a pound
*RAW mode
*IS
*Built-in flash (I might occasionally want to use at a party)
*Manual functionality similar to an SLR (aperture priority, manual ISO, etc)
*Less than $400 USD.
The Canon SD980 fits most of those, but it looks like it doesn't shoot RAW, and I'm not sure I can live without that. Anyone have any recommendations? Thanks for your help!
It's not that much bigger than a p&s and the sample images I've seen from it using higher ISO speeds are nothing short of amazing. The G11 also has an optical viewfinder, which is getting harder and harder to find.
I would trade the ability to shoot RAW along with usable higher ISO speeds for a slightly larger camera in a heartbeat!
Actually the S90 looks perfect... except for the price
Thanks for the suggestions!
The SD series of cameras are fine little point-n-shooters. I've had a couple - I have one in my pocket. But they are nowhere close to a backup for an SLR.
I while back I bought a highly-rated superzoom digicam to use as a convenient substitute for and occasional backup for a DSLR. It was a pretty good camera to have around your neck at a theme park with children, but I gradually grew dissatisfied with it finally gave it away. Too big to be pocketable and not capable of the degree of control I was accustomed to.
Have you thought about the burgeoning group of micro four-thirds format cameras? Rangefinder style cameras with interchangeable lenses, larger than most P&S digicams. I don't know much about them, but they intrigue me.
I often walk the dogs or go for a walk in the park and even the XTI with Tamron seems big. The LX-3 is perfectly sized.
10mp
RAW
24-60 lens and that is a 2.0 to 2.8
Built in IS
720p movies
1cm macro focus
Really just a nice pocket cam. And that 24mm f/2.0 Leica lens is sweet.
Note it is still a p+s. Focus is slower than a dslr, but quick for a p+s. IQ is below the XTI but I think they are still quite nice. The IQ upto iso 200 is very good and iso 400-1600 have very film like qualities to the grain. It also doe s a great in camera B+W. I often use it with RAW +JPG with the jpg set on the dynamic B+W and really like them.
Another way I look at is in a situation I'd have the 50D or XTi and the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 where I might be at ISO 1600 and f/2.8 I can be with the LX-3 at f/2.0 at iso 200 or 320 since the faster lens and built in IS really help. So I might actually get a better pic with the LX-3 in that low light handholding situation.
Great camera as a compliment to a DSLR kit and ideal as a take it everywhere model. I never leave home without it.
Now you need to watch for it being in stock as it is a cult classic. Check:
http://www.nowinstock.net/digitalcameras/panasonic/
And if the $500 seems a little high watch for the Canon S-90. 10mp RAW and a 28mm f/2.0 lens and a mere $430..coming soon.
Good luck!!
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK
You put it on your SD card and it loads into memory so it doesn't override your camera's firmware so as soon as you switch the camera off its gone. The downfall is you have to start your camera in playback mode and load it up by selecting the firmware update option in the menu every time you turn on your camera so it isn't good for turning on quickly for spontaneous shots but you can always shoot jpeg for those. The other downfall is you have to convert the file to DNG with external software before you can use the raw file and it always shoots a jpeg along with the raw no matter what so it uses more card space. So its not for everyone but I didn't have a lot of money so I picked up and old A540 which has full manual controls for $50 and hacked it to add raw capability and so far its worked out great, I shoot jpeg most of the time but if I need raw for slightly more serious work and don't have my DSLR with me I have the option to turn it on.
If you don't want to deal with the hastle and want raw as soon as you start up everytime and not have to convert it to DNG first then there are several other options out there. As far as current models go from Canon there is the G11 (or G10 if you want to save a couple bucks) and the more compact s90. The Panasonic Lumix LX-3 has received great reviews and is also more compact than the G series canon cameras.
If you want to save a little cash you could look at older models like the Lumix LX-2, G9 or Nikon P5000.